Hugo Chavez’ Physical Evolution part II, July 17th. to August 28th.

August 30, 2011

On July 16th. I showed the evolution of Hugo Chavez’ physical appearance during the time before and after his cancer was revealed. In this post, I show the evolution since then, using the same method of cropping his face from the front page of Correo del Orinoco. The order of the pictures is: From top left on: July 17th., July 22nd., July 25th. and Aug 6th. for the first square of four. The second one is Aug. 7th., Aug. 15th. , Aug. 22nd.and  Aug. 23,  and the last one is Aug. 24th., Aug 25th., Aug. 26th. and Aug. 28th.

Anyone that says he looks good, or has not changed, better take a look this carefully, it is after all, a 42 day span.

And BTW, what’s with the glasses? From none to high correction? Can anyone explain this?

104 Responses to “Hugo Chavez’ Physical Evolution part II, July 17th. to August 28th.”

  1. captainccs Says:

    Uglier by the minute!

  2. Susana Says:

    glasses: because people going through chemotherapy can not wear contacts or so I read

    also, am I the only one who is starting to see the resemblance with Bat Boy?

  3. moctavio Says:

    Susana, I have read that, but he used to wear some glasses that seemed to have a smaller correction, now it is culo de botella, maybe JMA can enlighten us.

    • Syd Says:

      I would guess that JMA the physician will say, as he did in a previous comment, that it’s all BS.

      Really, you have to blind, or a very poor clinician, not to see that something serious is going on.

      I would venture to say, as I did much earlier, and based on facts and visuals of those who’ve had chemo for prostate: loss in bone mass = significant loss in height (and osteoporosis).

      I also noticed earlier that his colour in the latest video was pasty. But then I wondered if it was the (fluorescent) lighting (has a greenish tint) and/or the quality of the video.

      In a few images, it looks like he’s drinking (lots of) carrot juice (carotenemia).

  4. firepigette Says:

    There are a million reasons why his appearance could be changing.I find it boring to speculate , and quite unnecessary.The principal and simplest answer could be stress.Stress comes from many factors, from psychological stresses, to physical stresses and or their combination.

    The most important thing to remember about Chavez and his helpers, are their intentions.Once we feel sure of those, then clear cut plans, that never waver, or weaken, have to be made.

    Nobody is psychic here, and if some of us are, it won’t make a bit of difference.

    • CharlesC Says:

      “The most important thing to remember about Chavez and his helpers, are their intentions”- behind the smiles and talk is a very dangerous sob.
      (His helpers know he is connected with worldwide terrorism-and they are loyal accomplices.)Cbavez wants to what? Well, he wants some powerful weapons- and always is talking about war? Chavez has no interest in economic development -nor infrastructure improvement- nor eduction-
      his interest is in taking territory by force -oil is a weapon?
      The only plan we can have is -get rid of Chavez. No other plans will ever
      materialize unless Chavez first goes.

      • Luis Says:

        In your opinion, what are Chavez’s intentions? Because as far as I know, he has 12 years in power and his intentions have been the same since day one and haven’t changed. We know what direction he wants to take his country. Tell me, what are the intentions of the U.S. Government? What is suppose to be good for you? A capitalist society that enslaves you into debt?

  5. John Barnard Says:

    “And BTW, what’s with the glasses? From none to high correction? Can anyone explain this?” Chemo can cause all sorts of issues with the eyes that make it hard to wear contact lenses. “Cataracts, dry eye syndrome, and chemo itchy eyes are some examples of eye problems resulting from cancer treatments.” (http://www.chemocare.com/managing/eye_problems.asp)

  6. Evo Says:

    se esta transformando en …LEX LUTHOR!!

  7. Roberto N Says:

    No question but that he is gonna kick the bucket. This series of pics really drives home the wasting away.

    Couldn’t happen to a better person

  8. ErneX Says:

    He’s getting immense, as in fat. Does anyone have an explanation for this? besides huge mondongos and arepas that is.

    • guest Says:

      Not fat but bloated. That is a common side effect of chemo and steroids (used to counter the effects of the chemo). Essentially, he’s inflating like a balloon.

      By itself, it means nothing other than now he’s uglier than before and that he’s turning into a cartoon villain (Hurricane Harry from the Cool McCool cartoon).

      • island canuck Says:

        “(Hurricane Harry from the Cool McCool cartoon)”

        That’s close.
        Also Mr. Potato Head comes to mind.

        Just do a GIS for each of these to see the resemblance

      • Roger Says:

        I would to see his ankles. All swollen and with adema I bet. Sube la plutonium!

      • Gringo Says:

        My father died of lung cancer, three months after the diagnosis. After his death, in looking at photos of him 8 months before his death and 5 months before his diagnosis, I observed that his face looked bloated.

        While Chavez has been taking chemotherapy, I would consider it possible that even without chemotherapy, his cancer could result in bloating of his face.

        One thing for sure: He doesn’t look emaciated.

      • Bloody Mary Dry Says:

        It looks to me identical to “Mini Me” in this video (I like especially the jail theme).

  9. Juan Cristóbal Nagel Says:

    Thanks for putting this together Miguel. I had noticed the same, but your picturama drives the point home.

  10. island canuck Says:

    We can only hope.

  11. Gonzalo Says:

    I bet the man is podrido por dentro and he will soon RIP.

  12. Kepler Says:

    I don’t know, with Venezuela’s luck I think Chávez will live for 232 years, 11 months and 27 days.
    it’s just a hunch.

  13. Carolina. Says:

    I don’t really care much of how he is looking or evolving. In fact, is always more shocking when you see someone known as getting sick after a couple of months, like it happened with Steve Jobs or Jack Layton (leader of the opposition in Canada who just died of cancer).

    What blows my mind is that in 42 days this guy has a photo of him on the FRONT PAGE of ONE newspaper. Then add the millions of photos around the Country, in every building, in every billboard, in every opposition newspaper. No wonder people identify with them because is all they see!

    This guy is about to be part of the past. We shall start moving on. We shall ignore him. I think it’s time to see the face of the opposition candidates on the front page of every newspaper, every billboard, every web page. I think it’s time to show the Fonden papers widely and openly around the country and demand an explanation to the government.

    Sorry guys, in my opinion, I think we are wasting our time with this worthless miserable.

    • JMA Says:

      I have come exactly to the same conclusion. The coveted dream of every malignant narcissist-psychopath is to keep getting the attention of everyone, whether in a positive or negative way (it really doesn’t matter which one). Dr. Franzel Delgado Senior explains this guy very well. Thus, I will not say anything more about his health. It doesn’t really matter if he lives or dies: the destruction of the country is almost complete. Time to focus on the really important stuff.

  14. extorres Says:

    I bet one of his upcoming strategies is equating Cancer with capitalism, and his recovery with being some kind of prophet.

  15. Alexander Says:

    Octavio, you put me in a compromise, I do not know if Chavez is ill, i have not read any medical certification about it. The only thing I know is an attempt to produce by him of a gross reality show. Chavez does not have my benefit of the doubt, sorry, but the only way I would react is having in my hand or read in the AN web site or in TSJ, the medical certification about his illness. Just what we have is a pure political speculation about it.
    Sorry gain, if I do something wrong on it. Chavez has reacted negatively before the requirement of opposition in the AN for the illness certificate, something, by the way, very simple, I do not mind who produces the certificate, it could be Cuban Medical system, or Venezuelan, or American, or Brazilian, even Bolivian one.
    I could observe that the President Chavez has cut his hear. I will not be caught in a speculation about the health. The state of his health is not a private thing; on the contrary, it is a moral duty of him to show to Venezuelans that he is seriously ill or not. However, if that is the case, we have to think in his replacement, or any other constitutional way out, even new elections, and less we are convinced that his illness is not going to be a restriction for the high post he holds, as President of Venezuela.

  16. moctavio Says:

    Come on JMA, I was hoping for a medical opinion.

    • Carolina Says:

      He wrote it! He is a very bloated, hairless and bad-eyed “malignant narcissist-psychopath”!! ;-)

    • captainccs Says:

      How about a coroner’s opinion?

    • JMA Says:

      Miguel:

      It is difficult to ascertain what is going on with the gorilla, because he gives too much contradictory information about his health. I even doubt that he had surgery. If he is really ill, he may be experiencing Hodgkin’s Lymphoma or an early stage of Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma. If chemotherapy is needed to treat these tumors, the regimen would include a steroid, which can cause cataracts, e.g.: decreased visual acuity. But, the other drugs in the regime can also cause ocular toxicity. Finally, if he used to wear contact lenses, then he had to stop using them to prevent an infection.

      With the info that he has provided, it is very unlikely (if it is true that he has cancer) that he is experiencing any other type of malignancy. Based on what he has said and the treatment he is receiving, the only possible conclusion is that he has an advanced stage cancer.

      Having said that, colon or rectal cancer seem pretty off the table. First, the surgery is really hard on the patient. If he had an abscess as he said or a rectal cancer, it would have most certainly required a colostomy. Let me tell you. When this happens to you, your life changes radically. I have seen it first hand in a most beloved family member. You LOSE weight, and I mean lots of it. The cancer’s chemical mediators, its feeding on the patient, and the anorexic effects of chemotherapy make sure that happens. Plus, if the Cubans extracted a tumor the size of a baseball, like he said, well, that is stage IV colon cancer, with metastases to peritoneum (only God can save you from that) and liver, for starters.

      Renal cancer does not get treated with chemo. You take the mass out, and then give radiotherapy. They respond very nicely to it.

      Bladder CA does not get steroids. Ever. So, you don’t get bloated like a pig.

      Prostate CA: there is some blatant ignorant mumbling some words about it in an above comment. Suffice it to say that if you get into a stage in which you need chemo, you are basically dead. The pain from the bone metastases is unbearable almost all the time, and your bone marrow gets infiltrated so you have all kinds of blood disorders (like having leukemia). Pathologic fractures are less likely since these patients are bedridden. So, again, for the ignorant above, no, prostate CA does not produce osteoporosis, it’s osteomalacia with its attendant pathologic fractures if any, and, no, your height is not reduced, because as I said these patients stay in bed because of pain, avoid fractures of the vertebral spine, and thus its height is preserved. I have yet to meet a stage IV prostate cancer patient walking. That would indeed be a miracle.

      So, for the reasons above, I will say that if the gorilla has anything it would be a Lymphoma. If it is Hodgkin’s disease, it is very treatable and he is likely to survive. If it is a NHL, his chances are not good, but still he may survive.

      Finally, regarding his freaking eyes, a decreased visual acuity could be the result of malignancy, chemotherapy, or radiotherapy.

      However, don’t ever underestimate the lengths to which a malignant narcissistic-psychopath would go to reach his goals. I know you don’t have to be versed on this, but let me tell you it is hair-raising knowledge. The books of Dr. Robert Hare come to mind. Read them, and your perception of life in this planet changes completely.

      A very good night to all of you guys!

      BTW, Miguel, are you in the U.S.?


      • Thanks a lot Dr. JMA, for the extraordinary lecture about this issue. Your evaluation convinces me of what I had in mind, I am economist, so you understand, and I need a medical certification of any of these disease, in order to believe that he is really and seriously ill. Otherwise, and following your important diagnostic of “malignant narcissistic-psychopath” will help me to understand Esteban’s show about his CA, that it might be a particular behavior to obtain his goals.

        • JMA Says:

          And, that is the point my dear friend: don’t ever underestimate what this guy would be capable to do. He would burn the whole country if he thought that was what was needed. But, don’t just take it from me, because I am not a psychiatrist. Here I will present you with some pearls from Dr. Franzel Delgado Senior, one of the best psychiatrists in Venezuela (My apologies for our non-Spanish speaking friends):

          Franzel Delgado Sénior recuerda que las estadísticas universales demuestran que la mayoría de las personalidades sociopáticas, en cuya clasificación incluye al presidente Chávez, tienen un final trágico. El psiquiatra cree que el mandatario está biológica e irrevocablemente diseñado para el conflicto. “Pretender que cambie es como esperar que sus ojos pasen de marrones a azules”

          ‘Yo no tengo ningún interés en descalificar a nadie. Simplemente creo que, sin el aporte de la psiquiatría, no va a ser posible comprender el escenario tan complejo en el que ha entrado Venezuela.

          La tesis del magnicidio es recurrente en el presidente Chávez. ¿Tiene alguna explicación psicológica el hecho de que el mandatario apele a esta constante en su discurso?

          El Presidente tiene, como todo ser humano, una configuración de la personalidad. Ese proceso que nutre la construcción de la personalidad cierra, en promedio, a los 21 años en todas las personas. Y, después de los 21 años, no es modificable. Cuando las cargas de la personalidad están bien repartidas, podemos hablar de una personalidad normal. Pero cuando ese proceso de estructuración se produce de manera inadecuada y cierra con cargas desproporcionadas (muchas cargas de un tipo y pocas de otra), entonces la personalidad se configura patológicamente. Y esa configuración patológica es vitalicia.

          ¿Hay alguna configuración patológica en el caso del jefe de Estado?

          Existen características muy claras que permiten, sin mayor dificultad, plantearse una estructura de personalidad de tipo sociopática y narcisista. Los trastornos de personalidad sociopáticos están definidos en las clasificaciones universales de la psiquiatría. Se trata de personas que están diseñadas biológicamente para violar las normas; no ejercen la lealtad; no actúan con la verdad; tienen vidas afectivas sumamente inestables; en su estructura no hay sensibilidad; no hay arrepentimientos; tienen que vivir permanentemente en el conflicto; no saben vivir en paz con los demás; y son muy manipuladoras.

          ¿Y la personalidad narcisista?

          En el caso del narcisismo, la percepción que la persona tiene de sí misma está fuera de la realidad; es exagerada; tiene la convicción de ser única; se siente por encima de los demás. Cualquier mala acción es posible para satisfacer esas necesidades narcisistas de la personalidad. Como los narcisistas se creen predestinados para una situación muy especial, perfectamente es factible que puedan abrigar el temor de que hay gente interesada en eliminarlos. El temor del Presidente ante un magnicidio es absolutamente justificable. Si revisamos las estadísticas universales, encontramos que una proporción muy significativa de personas con trastornos sociopáticos termina muerta. Porque son agresivas, son conflictivas, violan los derechos de los demás, y, en algún momento de su vida, alguien les cobra.

          ¿Usted puede clasificar la personalidad del Presidente sin que él haya sido su paciente?

          Yo no hago un diagnóstico como médico, porque él nunca ha sido mi paciente, pero los psiquiátras podemos precisar que las conductas observables del presidente de la república se corresponden con este tipo de trastornos de la personalidad que menciono. Aparte de estas características, creo que Chávez es una persona con un grado intelectual muy básico; un hombre con muy poca cultura; acostarse católico y despertarse a las 8 horas evangélico, es una muestra fehaciente de ello.

          Pero inteligente.

          Podría ser inteligente. Lo que pasa es que a veces la inteligencia de una persona engaña. Durante mucho tiempo, las clasificaciones internacionales señalaban que una de las características de las personalidades sociopáticas era la inteligencia. Pero, con el tiempo, ese criterio se revisó, porque se comenzó a percibir que no era tanto la inteligencia, sino la habilidad para manipular a los demás lo que los hacía aparecer como inteligentes. Esperar que el Presidente cambie es pretender que sus ojos marrones pasen a ser azules. No es posible.

          ¿Pero no podría cambiar ni siquiera apelando a un trabajo de ingeniería genética?

          Sobre la personalidad no se puede actuar. Aquí no podemos esperar paz mientras el presidente de la República sea Chávez. Porque Chávez no es que no quiera ser distinto, es que no puede ser distinto. Biológicamente está diseñado para hacer lo que está haciendo. Y ni que él se lo propusiera pudiese ser distinto. Mientras no entendamos eso, no vamos a comprender por qué le estamos declarando la guerra a los Estados Unidos, o por qué un gobierno que habla de paz anda comprando cien mil fusiles a Rusia o porqué desajusta la vida y la paz en Latinoamérica.

          La idea del magnicidio también la asoma recurrentemente Fidel Castro, quien ha inventariado la cantidad de veces que Estados Unidos habría intentado asesinarlo.

          Chávez y Castro, aunque intelectualmente son diferentes (el primero es el guerrero y el segundo el oráculo), deben tener personalidades muy parecidas. Para ser un dictador durante más de cuarenta años, Castro debe tener, sin duda, una estructura sociopática. Si no hay una estructura sociopática, no se puede ejercer la dictadura, porque la dictadura es violación de los derechos de los demás; el irrespeto de los límites; conflictividad; es crueldad. Y eso una personalidad sana no lo puede cohonestar. Ninguna persona que no tenga un componente narcisista, creerse superior a los demás, puede ser dictador. Porque precisamente el dictador lo que busca es poder; sumisión; subyugar eternamente.

          I hope this helps understand how his mind works, and what is he capable of.

          • CharlesC Says:

            I would say that I have nothing to add. That is the clearest
            psychological description of Chavez that explains every thing
            he says and does. Scary thing to note is- the deadly mix
            of sociopathy and narcissistic influence. Are Venezuelans
            enthralled with this “fatal attraction” relationship with Chavez?

            • captainccs Says:

              >>>Are Venezuelans enthralled with this “fatal attraction” relationship with Chavez?

              There are over 25 million of us and I don’t think we all agree on “fatal attraction” or on anything else. ;)

              A whole bunch of Venezuelans think that can get rid of Chavez via elections. I wonder what they are smoking! Some think Chanchez has cancer, others that he is faking it. And so it goes.

          • Mike Says:

            Thank you JMA for this information and the time it took you to put it together. It is the best professional summary that I have read anywhere of the man’s health, given the incomplete, often contradictory and non-verifiable information, as well as his psyché by behavioral observation.

      • Roberto N Says:

        For what it’s worth, I translated JMA’s comment by Franzel Delgado Senior into English because it was so interesting. Any mistakes in translation are mine.

        Franzel Delgado Senior reaffirms that universal statistics demonstrate that the majority of sociopathic personalities, in which president Chavez is classified, come to a tragic end. The psychiatrist believes the president is biologically and irrevocably designed for conflict. “To pretend he will change is to wait for his eyes to change from brown to blue”
        “I have no interest in disqualifying anyone. I simply believe that, without the contribution of psychiatry, it will not be possible to understand the complex scenario in which Venezuela has entered.”
        The thesis of assasination is recurrent in president Chavez. Is there a psychological explanation for the fact that the president constantly refers to this in his discourse?
        The president has, as does every human being, a personality configuration. This process that feeds the construction of the personality ends, on average, at age 21 in all people. After age 21, it is not modifiable. When the personality loads are well distributed, we can speak of a normal personality. But when this process of structuring happens inadequately and ends with unbalanced loads (many loads of one sort and few of others), then the personality configures itself pathologically. And this pathologic configuration is for life.
        Is there a pathologic configuration in the case of the Head of State?
        There are very clear characteristics that allow, without great difficulty, to pose a personality structure of a sociopathic and narcissistic type. Sociopathic personality disorders are defined in the universal classifications of psychiatry. These are people that are biologically designed to violate norms; they do not exercise loyalty; they do not act with truth; they have affective lives that are very unstable; there is no sensibility in their structures; there are no regrets; they always have to live in conflict; they cannot live in peace with others and are very manipulative.
        And the narcissistic personality?
        In the case of narcissism, the perception that the person has of him/herself is not real; it is exaggerated; it has the conviction of being unique; he or she is above the rest. Any bad action is possible to satisfy these narcissistic necessities of the personality. Because narcissists believe they are pre-destined for special situations, it is perfectly understandable that they could hold the fear that there are people interested in eliminating them. The fear of the President of that magnicide is absolutely justified. If we examine universal statistics, we find that a very significant proportion of people with sociopathic disorders end up dead. Because they are aggressive, conflictive, violate the rights of others and at some point in their life, someone gets even.
        Can you classify the President’s personality even though he has not been your patient?
        I cannot diagnose as a physician, because he has never been my patient, but we psychiatrists can aver that the observable behaviors of the President correspond to those types of personality disorders that I mention. Aside form those characteristics, I believe that Chavez is a person with a very basic intellect; a man with little culture; to go to bed Catholic and wake up Evangelical 8 hours later is a great example of this.
        But intelligent
        He could be intelligent. What happens is that sometimes a person’s intelligence fools you. For too long, international classifications showed that one of the characteristics of sociopathic personalities was intelligence. But, over time, this criterion was revised, because it began to be apparent that it wasn’t so much intelligence, but the ability to manipulate the others that made them appear to be intelligent. To believe that the President will change is to pretend that his brown eyes become blue.
        But couldn’t he change even by some feat of genetic engineering?
        You cannot act on personality. We cannot expect peace while Chavez is the president of Venezuela. It’s not that Chavez doesn’t want to be different, it’s that he can’t be different. He is designed biologically to do what he does. Not even if he wanted to could he be any different. While we fail to understand this, we will fail to understand why we are declaring war on the US, or why we are buying one hundred thousand rifles form Russia or why he destabilizes life and peace in Latinamerica.
        The idea of magnicide is also mentioned recurrently by Fidel Castro, who keeps count the number of times the US has tried to assassinate him.
        Chavez and Castro, although intellectually different (the first is the warrior, the second the oracle), must have similar personalities. To be a dictator for over 40 years, Castro must have, without doubt, a sociopathic structure. If there is no sociopathic structure, you cannot be a dictator because to be a dictator is to violate the rights of others, the disrespect of limits; conflictivity; cruelty. And that, a healthy personality cannot gloss over. No person that does not have a narcissistic component, that does not believe they are superior to others, can be dictator. Because, precisely, the dictator looks for power, for submission, to subjugate eternally.

  17. Cesar Says:

    Isn’t his skin tone getting lighter too?

    Anyway, I don’t think we should speculate so much about his condition. We should be more dignified than that. Besides, offended Chavistas will use any sly remark that gets published to get back at us, defusing any serious discussion about issues, post-Chavez reconstruction, etc. It will always be “why should we deal with that immoral opposition who doesn’t respect a dying hero”.

    Plus, I do think it’s actually in bad taste to make funny remarks about it.

    • Syd Says:

      frankly, I don’t give a damn what offended chavistas will use or say or do.

      Our speculations are on a public subject that has been improperly aired by the very ones that will hurl all manner of epithets against those who are simply filling in the holes left by game-playing chavistas .

      • Cesar Says:

        I agree, Syd. To me, they brought it on themselves by not being truthfull and not giving enough information and on time. They opened the door to all these speculation, and even the not-quite-friendly remarks. But what I’m trying to say is that with this attitude not only are we drifting from the real discussion on the fact that all this is kept secret in spite of our right to know, but in some cases we’re actually giving them cause to demonize us.

        Oh, and I do think his skin tone is getting lighter.

  18. Evo Says:

    he wants you to believe he is going to die soon so you don’t have to move a hair to change the current situation, and… in 2031 he will still be fighting ‘cancer”

    • CharlesC Says:

      “he wants you to believe he is going to die soon so you don’t have to move a hair to change the current situation”-true or not-I believe this is the
      Chavez/Castro strategy-and it has been working- lots of sympathy.
      As with Castro- many seem to have forgotten Castro was supposed to be
      arrested for crimes against his own people, supporting terrorism, and more-

  19. island canuck Says:

    JMA thank you for publishing the very interesting analysis of cancer & the mental state of our president.

    Interesting information.

    He obviously is suffering from something & it is still very early to be using this as an election ploy. What’s he going to do after February??

  20. NorskeDiv Says:

    Got to agree. Which hour and minute? You’re just taking the farmers almanac approach, ie. it will snow in december…Got to agree. Which hour and minute? You’re just taking the farmers almanac approach, ie. it will snow in december…

  21. bruni Says:

    He is going through chemo, that’s all. I don’t see anything else striking in his appearance that cannot be explained by it.

    With chemo one gets paler, swollen because of the anti-emetic, feels increasingly tired and has trouble concentrating.

    About contact lenses…I had chemo eleven years ago and I used to have hard contact lenses. Nobody told me they should be removed (and they were very particular with what I should or shouldn’t do) and I never had any trouble with them.

  22. Cristina Says:

    A few things to keep in mind:
    Chemo itself makes patients very sick. Many medications are used for side effects, causing other side effects. For example, steroids are often used to help cope with nausea but make patients bloated.
    Chemos affect skin tone in bizarre and different ways.
    Side effects such as bloating or funny skin tones will dissapear soon after the chemo is finished. Hair will grow back and lost weight will be recovered.

    The real question is what will happen with cancer when chemo is stopped?
    It’s a well known fact that cancer cell deposits that cannot be detected by scans, remain in the body.

  23. Cristina Says:

    Bruni, I hadn’t read your comment, how funny…

  24. firepigette Says:

    JMA

    I think it is clear to some of the best diagnosticians in Caracas, that Chavez suffers from Bipolar disorder.That doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have a narcissistic nucleus, but the bipolar factor is of utmost importance in understanding Chavez’s behavior.

    • JMA Says:

      Quite the contrary. A bipolar condition is very treatable and, if well medicated, these people can function with a fair degree of normalcy. Moreover, these people very seldom are a threat to society. On the other hand, a malignant narcissist-sociopath is a monster that won’t ever recognize that there is a problem with him/her. Their disorder is always suffered by those around him/her, and they are capable of inflicting great misery on anyone who dares oppose them. With bipolar disorder, you can have bouts of mania and depression. You can hardly be a menace to others when you are depressed. As for mania, well, sometimes it is even fun to watch. But, these problems are not in themselves dangerous to others. Disruptive yes, dangerous, extremely unlikely.

      Malignant narcissism-psychopathy is a very real and potentially harmful condition … for the others. Hitler, Mussolini, Mugabe, Saddam, Castro, and Chavez come to mind.

      • firepigette Says:

        JMA,

        Sorry I beg to differ.Many people with bipolar do not take their medication at all or not properly.

        Mania often produces paranoia which is dangerous to others after all it is a psychosis and anyone out of reality with high levels of energy is dangerous.

        As for narcissism, I have to more to say on that later in the day.A very interesting theme.

      • Syd Says:

        Agree, FP, on the unwillingness of bipolars to take their medication. Among those who suffer from manic depression, they don’t want to dull their highs. The mania cycle can produce rages in some, or other manifestations that don’t necessarily make for a monster, but do make life miserable for others, especially the innocent and vulnerable, who in turn, like a vicious cycle, help boost the mania.

        I equate the behaviour of manic depressants who exhibit rage and victimization with that of bullies. Funny enough, if as a victim you yell back at the manic depressive, not as a defensive measure, but as an offensive, the manic depressive backs off. Just like bullies do. Meaning, there is a level of awareness among manic depressives that respond to reminders of what they’re doing. Not that the reminder will eliminate the urge to dominate and victimize.

        — a lifelong observer of this type of behaviour.

  25. Syd Says:

    JMA:

    Regarding “some blatant ignorant mumbling…” I did NOT say that prostate CA produces osteoporosis (OP). Your twisting points to, at best, a shocking lack of careful reading.

    Where I erred was in mistaking chemo for androgen replacement therapy. And THAT causes a visual shrinking in height as of within a month or so of starting the therapy for prostate CA. I’ve seen the shrinking close at hand. And I’ve been very familiar with OP.

    As a presumed oncologist, wouldn’t you be familiar with the relationship between prostate CA treatment and OP? It seems not. This may help:

    http://www.niams.nih.gov/Health_Info/Bone/Osteoporosis/Conditions_Behaviors/osteoporosis_prostate_cancer.asp

  26. island canuck Says:

    Kepler, that’s a good question.
    I remember the conversations a few months ago that indicated that a 2/3 majority was needed & that we would have some input (MUD assembly members).

    That obviously didn’t happen.

    On another note the government has now published some obscure law saying that there could be fines for impeding the work of the census. Does that mean that refusing to answer is breaking the law? We will not be receiving these people when they come looking for us. I will not answer the questions they are asking even if it means a fine.

  27. John Barnard Says:

    Mirafloresology!!!

  28. captainccs Says:

    Bipolar? Heck, I can down six Polars with no harmful effects! At most a couple of Alka-Seltzers the next day.

  29. firepigette Says:

    JMA,

    Angry, paranoid, and even violent behaviors are not uncommon during a manic episode.

    Combine that with any degree of narcissism and you get a Molotov cocktail-A steam roller personality.

    But even more important to discuss is how “ordinary” people connect with Chavez through their own narcissism( quite common in today’s world by the way), believing in him and supporting his most hateful narcissistic traits precisely because of the echo he produces in their own self centered fantasies( sometimes vengeful,sometimes racist,and others times grandiose).

  30. firepigette Says:

    JMA,

    I have this info basically because I have a background in Psychology ( though i must admit my interest has always been primarily in normal psychology.Married to a psychologist for years,I taught personality profiling in Venezuela.Also I have several friends who are psychiatrists one who is quite an astute diagnostician.We discussed Chavez before I left Venezuela as he was privy to inside info on his condition, and the consensus was that he suffered from some manifestation of the bipolar spectrum.Below is an article on the matter, Scroll down and you will see Chavez listed as bipolar.

    http://www.healthline.com/health-experts/healthline-connects/bipolar-spectrum-disorder-updates

  31. firepigette Says:

    Would also like to say regarding Lithium( the main drug used for bipolar treatments) is that many patients don’t like the way they feel while taking the drug.Many people who experience the highs of a relatively mild manic episode, will go off the drug willfully to experience them, therefore there are quite a few untreated bipolars out there.

    Also very important to remember, there are as many manifestations of the illness as there are people.Statistics are one thing and each individual is another, so it really makes no sense in trying to understand Chavez just through some statistically typical diagnosis.

    However, It should be obvious just from simple observation that requires no expertise on the matter, that Chavez is often delusional to the point of psychosis….

  32. CharlesC Says:

    “But even more important to discuss is how “ordinary” people connect with Chavez through their own narcissism( quite common in today’s world by the way), believing in him and supporting his most hateful narcissistic traits precisely because of the echo he produces in their own self centered fantasies( sometimes vengeful,sometimes racist,and others times grandiose).”
    Too many little Chavezs running around now- reminds me of a fellow walking up to a kennel of guard dogs- i thought – watch out- some of those dogs are loose- and a couple of large ones came running toward this guy- he kept walking toward them and -suddenly waved his arms and said “Boo” to them and -they ran away. I could not believ it!
    Point is- get rid of Chavez and – scare away those litle chavista wannabees
    will be easy.

  33. Euro A. Says:

    As a Venezuelan opposition person, I feel that is my obligation not to pay more than the minimum possible attention to Chavez illness, I m not sure on what is happening, but the media should keep focused into uncovering all the government disasters, that s the tactic that has been eroding his popularity numbers; if we get distracted by whatever reason, we will loose any chance of victory in the incoming elections.

    Right now new Pudreval scandal and Fonden un matching numbers seems pretty interesting arguments to me!

  34. moctavio Says:

    Yes Euro, but since we dont know what he has, one should try to figure it out, because the opposition should be ready for Chavez not being around in 2012 or not being able to campaign., no?


    • It looks that Esteban was really able and very cunning to convince many around that it could be out the run because his CA, I recall Esteban said that is CA “era de los curables” es decir, de los buenos. It looks that Cuba is the world of “terapies” for everything includin CA’s, have a look a t the terapia followed by Maradona en Cuba two years ago.

  35. Euro A. Says:

    What s the difference? If he is not around for 2012 still there will be a transitory government and then elections, we are still gonna have to beat them in the ballots. Strategically I think that the fact that Chavez is or isn,t sick doesn’t change a think, maybe it can give us an advantage on campaign.

  36. moctavio Says:

    You are an optimist. I think if he is not around, those that support him will realize they cant win the election and do something about it, too much to lose.

    • captainccs Says:

      Miguel, you can’t get rid of Chávez without getting rid of Chávez. Whatever comes after getting rid of Chavez we’ll just have to deal with.

      • moctavio Says:

        If you are a politician, you need to have a plan, there was no plan if we “lost” in 2004….no plan if Chavez left in 2002…

        • Euro A. Says:

          I think the kind of situation you are describing doesn’t require a plan from politicians, maybe from people willing to start a civil war. Do you believe that any of the members of the MUD has the knowledge to start a revolt capable to coup Chavez or any dictatorial regime resulting from his death? I think not, plus I also think that it’s outside their range of operation, if they do that they no longer are politicians and become something else.

          • Caracola Says:

            A couple of things come quickly to my mind when I read these latest comments:

            1. There has no been any “plan” since the “9no Plan de la Nacion”, circa 1998. Eveything after that in Venezuela has been pure product of improvisation.
            BTW, I was looking for any history about Cordiplan and when it disapeared or turned into something else, but I couldn’t find it. I found this though:

            http://ciudadanolibre.blogspot.com/2006/07/venezuela-los-planes-de-la-nacin-y-la.html

            2. Euro, you write: “Do you believe that any of the members of the MUD has the knowledge to start a revolt capable to coup Chavez…”

            My question to you: Do you think that to start a revolve of any kind you need to know how to??? I think that most revolves in history have been ignited without too much thought.

            I think Miguel is referring to a plan for the AFTER the revolve, is it ever happens, for after the elections, if we ever win them, or after Chavez death, if that ever happens…..

            • Euro A. Says:

              When we are talking for someone like Chavez who has created ultra fanatic guerrillas and would not hesitate to throw the army against the people, Yes I think there is the need for a strategic military plan. We have a very recent example; On Libia before the Nato intervention Khadafi was really close to reach the rebel headquarters and end it all; after Nato Intervention (We all know that besides the air support there was massive specific military strategy training to repel the Khadafi’s forces). So Yes I do think we need a plan.

            • Euro A. Says:

              And I do not think that the fact there hasn t been any plan since 1998 justifies the fact of not having any, actually the lack of planification is one of the main issues of the country; I do not want just to get rid of Chavez I want Venezuela to progress.


          • I would read from M. Olson “The Logic of Collectiv Action” … http://amzn.to/r9YIk1 is worthy it!!

  37. moctavio Says:

    Euro: That is not what I am talking about, you have to start short circuiting that possibility by reaching out to the other side, that’s what politicians do. They are nervous, they are edgy, they will become more so after the next few months, do nothing is not an strategy, it is giving up!

    • Euro A. Says:

      Mmm could you explain more “shortcircuiting that possibility by reaching out to the other side…” Sorry I m not sure on what you ment.

      • moctavio Says:

        Easy, people are going to be worried about persecution if they leave Government, of being fired, many things like that. You talk to the Chavistas and tell them, if you are not corrupt you have nothing to worry about. You tell them an oppo Government will be for all, not like Chavez and you also reach to the lower military, the non-fanatics and tell them you know they are institutional.

        • Euro A. Says:

          Ok Got it, sorry for the delay had to leave for a meeting;
          Are we sure that is the right question we want to ask? (“…If you are no corrupt you have nothing to worry about…) :)
          About the lower military, the non fanatics, are we sure that at this point after so may years the military education hasn t been indoctrinated yet?

          • moctavio Says:

            I dont know if it is the right question to ask, I know that is the question they want answered: Will lower ranking officers be fired because they rose under Chavez?

  38. moctavio Says:

    Cordiplan became the Ministry of Planning, now merged into the Ministry of Finance, which is stupid, you have to have execution and planning separate.


  39. Thanks God, that there is no Plan anymore. Even though I preffer more spontaneity in the Hayek sense (The USe of Knowledge in Society). However there is a tight agenda of destruction, which has been applied with a great deal of efficience. Destruction is of ourse easy to manage. And if on top of it, you have some money in the budget, it is easier.

  40. firepigette Says:

    Forgot to mention that the most dangerous side effect of lithium is its impact on hydration level. Lithium can cause intense dehydration or bloating. People taking lithium may need to drink extra levels of water or sometimes less water.

    http://www.ehow.com/facts_4884287_side-effects-lithium.html

  41. Syd Says:

    For me, the psychiatric/psychological profile of Chávez is so old hat. It was being thoroughly discussed in 2000, if not before. I thought we had moved on by now. I thought we had accepted its reality, and resigned our fate to it, until the next voting procedure.

    What I will say is this, again, as a lifelong observer of manic depression and related symptoms in the bipolar umbrella:

    There is no size that fits all, either in the intensity or timing of cycles experienced (by sufferers and those they affect), or in the medication prescribed.

    There are many, many variables, including medications. Sometimes (especially for suicidal cases) there can be 7 and more medications prescribed, and finding the right cocktail and amounts can be a laborious exercise, assuming willingness by the patient, and patience by the psychiatrist.

  42. firepigette Says:

    Syd, “There is no size that fits all, either in the intensity or timing of cycles experienced (by sufferers and those they affect), or in the medication prescribed. ”

    Totally true, and for me it is not an issue at this point.My main concern is what is the best strategy to take to get rid of him.

  43. Kepler Says:

    This all sounds like 99% nature and not nurture.
    I have no clue about psychiatry, but I thought it was all Hugo’s granny’s fault, who shut him up in that closet…and Hugo’s free will later on.
    Hm.

    • CharlesC Says:

      While I agree completely with the Psych analysis-Kepler I also agree
      that so much is nature-physical- Please don’t shoot- but I will say this-
      Chavez represents a “rise of hybrids”-but, the problem is- Chavez is
      basically an uneducated, uncultured oaf- who became “overwhelmed”
      with power which inflated his already overinflated-false ego.
      So, Chavez is overblown- an actor, an opportunist- frankly a clown,
      who apes other dictators. This freakin’TV show- is a big part of the
      problem- it feeds Chavez and is feeding the ignorant who know nothing
      else..Keep your children away from the TV, please.
      Chavez was formed by nature-and exploited a fruit and nut bowl of plenty..
      But- as Babalu said a few weeks ago about Castro- he could have taken
      a portion ..but no, he wants it all!! Chavez must be stopped.

    • Syd Says:

      there is a strong genetic component to bipolar. Comprobado. As for the nurture, the effects that the bipolar personality has on others, say within a family, will create an environment that is bound to affect those who are not prone to manic tendencies. But even those who grow up under the influence of a manic personality, and act out in their early life, will eventually grow up and see that there is a difference between “normalcy” and not. If you are afflicted with bipolar disorder, you are more likely to delude yourself that you’re perfectly ok, it’s everyone else that’s not up to your lofty standards, etc. The best author on this type of affliction is Kay Jamison Redfield. I highly recommend her http://www.google.ca/webhp?hl=en#hl=en&cp=13&gs_id=1g&xhr=t&q=Kay+Jamison+Redfield&pf=p&sclient=psy&site=webhp&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=Kay+Jamison+R&aq=0&aqi=g1g-v4&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=16d8d1329394d13c&biw=1669&bih=1070 . Try starting with her “An Unquiet Mind”, which is autobiographical and filled with some extraordinary insights. As well as being a very readable author, she also has the educational chops and the experience to provide ample credibility. KJR also delves into the genetic aspects of bipolar disorder through several famous authors, known to be afflicted. That book, “Trial by Fire” (Not “World by Fire”, written by Amy Chua, whose psych. profile is also debatable) is not as readable. Or at least, not to me; I found it dense.

  44. island canuck Says:

    Tonight Margarita is totally paralyzed by protesting pueblo for the constant electrical cuts. Tires are burning, traffic is blocked & people are angry.


  45. [...] What is not explained in the rumor is why Chavez is looking increasingly bloated. [...]

  46. nobody special Says:

    Bloating related to cancer treatment: Prednisone

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prednisone

    “Prednisone is important in the treatment of acute lymphoblastic leukemia, Non-Hodgkin lymphomas, Hodgkin’s lymphoma, multiple myeloma and other hormone-sensitive tumors, in combination with other anticancer drugs.”

    (Selected) Major side effects:

    Difficulty controlling emotion
    Difficulty in maintaining train of thought
    Weight gain
    Facial swelling
    Depression, mania, psychosis, or other psychiatric symptoms
    Unusual fatigue or weakness
    Mental confusion / indecisiveness
    Blurred vision
    Anxiety

    I watched my Dad gain over 150 pounds within 3 months when he had NHL. Hugo looks about the same.


  47. Hello to all, the contents existing at this site are actually awesome for people knowledge, well, keep
    up the good work fellows.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 11,237 other followers

%d bloggers like this: