From The Heart (Or Dark?) Of Venezuela´s Democracy

October 15, 2012

These are images of intelligence police detaining reporters from Argentina who came to Venezuela to report on the election. It is in Spanish, but the story is here and here or here (last one in Spanish). Documents and videos were “expropriated”, PC drives copied. Of course, his charges are minor for a democracy: That Venezuela´s intelligence services spied on candidate Capriles? Of course! He was the opposition candidate! What else would Chavez order?

Next jerk that says there is freedom of speech and the press in Venezuela gets erased and banned!

58 Responses to “From The Heart (Or Dark?) Of Venezuela´s Democracy”

  1. geronl Says:

    I am thinking the word “democracy” and Venezuela in the sentence is a delusion

  2. firepigette Says:

    “I am thinking the word “democracy” and Venezuela in the sentence is a delusion”

    as well as the word dictatorship and fair and square elections , thankyou

  3. megaescualidus Says:

    From a civilian standpoint, really scary. But yet again, why I’m not fully surprised this happened (and probably has been happening all along for who know how long)?

  4. Roger Says:

    Last prez election they fired shots at The Telemundo anchor and his crew on the roof of RCTV. So whats new? Also, you can bet that whole detachments of these guys are trying to find something to charge Capriles with. Question is if it will be before or after the first or second election? Chavez has become very predictable.

  5. deananash Says:

    The barbarians will be unmasked for all the world to see – sooner or later. I’m betting on sooner. (After all, it’s already been a long time.)

    Educated people already knew this, soon enough, most of the 55% will learn it too.

  6. rudy Says:

    Like there is freedom of speech everywhere especially in the USA those who pay this site, how many poeple are jailed illegally and put in secret detention centers !

    Author’s Note: It did not take long, except Rudy is a brainless PSF who has yet to understand that Venezuela and the US are not the same country even if they are in the same Continent. It must have been a bad geography teacher in Germany or something like that.

    • Getashrink Says:

      Typical chavista answer. You complain about something screwed up happening in Venezuela, and they tell you “Oh, it also happens somewhere else, what are you complaining about?”

      Another favorite of them: “Oh, it also happened before Chavez, what are you complaining about?”

      How pathetic!

    • TV Says:

      How many Rommey supporters were arrested and put in secret detention? Can you name one?

      Oh wait, the Republicans have the majority in the Congress, don’t they? Was it Obama supporters?

      Maybe some of each?

    • CharlesC Says:

      I can see you have many things on your mind, Rudy. I am talking to
      you, Rudy. “Clear your mind.”

  7. HalfEmpty Says:

    And Dresden!

  8. Kepler Says:

    This shouldn’t be surprise at all. I think the Argentinians were a bit naive.

    Any journalist and anyone else should know by now there is no rule of law in Venezuela. We are dealing with thugs who have blood in their hand and billions in their accounts. Mobutu’s regime was a model for honesty compared to Chávez’s. Chavista thugs have more to fear if things get disclosed.

    If you go to the airport (and elsewhere) you should know by now those thugs are likely going to take evidence.

    What should you do? It is digital. You should transmit it through the appropriate channels. You should have made copies of it. You should always make data anonymous.

    You don’t have to be an expert on anything to know this. Chavista politicians have been so stupid to even flaunt about it to foreign journalists: how the Cubans and others are helping them in surveillance of the opposition.

  9. TV Says:

    This got me thinking – Caprilles was scrutinized by Venezuelan intelligence service and their Cuban counterparts for about half a year, and the very worst accusation they could find was …

    … that one of his aides took money from a questionable character that set him up.

    He must be one of the least corrupt politicians in the world, let alone Venezuela.

    Either that, or the said intelligence services are by far the worst in all history of all mankind. Admittedly that isn’t impossible, but I still find it less likely.

  10. MasterBlog Says:

    Reblogged this on MasterBlog en Español and commented:
    Así están las cosas en la supuesta democracia Venezolana….

  11. junc Says:

    > Next jerk that says there is freedom of speech and the press in Venezuela gets erased and banned!

    I hope you are trying to be ironic here.

  12. ElJefe Says:

    These people are animals, plain and simple. SEBIN operates like most Latin American secret police units: Quietly and out of the limelight. All those idiots abroad that think there’s freedom of expression in Venezuela never see these things firsthand so they just believe whatever they write over on aporrea or venezuelanalysis. What were the official charges? The fact that he tells him to stop filming ‘just because’ makes my blood boil. They don’t even make a pretense of being civilized, they’re animals.

  13. Roy Says:

    In a way, it is democracy. 55% of the people voted for it, so the other 45% have to live with it. Someone once said that democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on the lunch menu.

    The difference is that what we commonly call “Democracy” is actually “Constitutional Democracy”, in which individual rights are legally defined and guaranteed, and in which the various institutions of the government pledge their allegiance, not to a leader, or a party, but to the Constitution.

    Without those institutionally guaranteed rights, democracy becomes a tyranny of the majority, or the representative of the majority, who can then steal from, or even make slaves of the minority, or abuse them in any way they wish… all “democratically”.

    • TV Says:

      The democracy you speak of died out almost 2,500 years ago. It’s the classical Athenian style, that is indeed best described as mob rule.

      • Roy Says:

        TV:

        Looking at Venezuela, it obviously has not died out. The mob is in charge in Venezuela, led by their cacique, and godfather, Hugo Chavez.

  14. David Says:

    Sebin, G2, all these security forces operate for one sole purpose, avoid any bit of truth from getting out. Yet, these people and their sponsors have got to be confronted and exposed. Lets give thanks to Lanata and all the brave reporters who confront these forces every day.

  15. Alex Dalmady Says:

    I agree with about everything said here about Venezuelan security forces.They’re terrible.
    That said, the argentine journalists were baiting these guys and got the exact reaction they were looking for. The result: the SEBIN guys come off as doubly stupid: for taking the bait and for acting like goons.

    • syd Says:

      AGREE 100%. So glad you mentioned it, in a sea of ‘outrage’.

      The Argie journalists hail from a country that has had a long history of repressive regimes, and now ‘enjoys’ one loosely associated with chavernment routines. They did not just fall off the turnip truck. And I don’t buy for a second their ‘playing innocent’ as they try to capture that last byte, having suspected the Sebin trailing from the unmarked car, prior to their arrival at Maiquetía.

      • Kepler Says:

        Afterwards I thought so. Now: if they knew it all, they must have made a copy.
        If they had a copy somewhere else, why aren’t they showing it now?
        Or have they? (I haven’t read anything)

    • ElJefe Says:

      Problem is I don’t know in front of what audience they come off as stupid. I mean, all of us here know that military intelligence shaking people down in an airport and following them around the city isn’t normal. However the audience that can actually make a difference either doesn’t find out about this problem or willingly chooses to ignore it.

  16. Kepler Says:

    Miguel, OT

    You mentioned at Ccs that they could devalue…but later you told me Giordani is happy with $4.5 or so? Or did I get it wrong?

    So: what is it? I think you had previously said you think the government will devalue as soon as the electioneering permits.

  17. Moctavio Says:

    They have to devalue, the amount is unknown, but I bet is big

  18. moctavio Says:

    We had more witnesses than ever, I actually saw that happening in an oppo center too. I can’t conclude anything from watching it.

    • Kepler Says:

      We had more witnesses than ever. Do you know how we had a fraction of the witnesses we said we were going to have?
      Miguel, Miranda is NOT Venezuela.
      I will send you some texts from first sources, relatives of mine.
      When Caldera (notorious Caldera) told Francisco Toro they had witnesses everywhere (a couple of years ago) it was false. It is still false now.
      And many witnesses left before everything finished.

      • moctavio Says:

        Not my understanding and the data shows it.

        • firepigette Says:

          Where did you get your data?

          • moctavio Says:

            Abstention at all levels does not show the huge “glitch” that it had after the regional elections because of the “phantom” voters. Additionally, the Comando Venezuela has copies of more than 90% of the Actas, given to them by their witnesses. That is 30% more, at least than in 2010, I dont know the precise number above 90%.

  19. Kepler Says:

    Miguel,

    Luis Alfredo Navas Galindo (how many Navas do you know? And how many Galindo? And how many Navas Galindo? And how many Luis Alfredo Navas Galindo? There are thousands of surnames in Venezuela) with ID
    17792842 voted in the mesa 2 in a school in Bolívar.
    Luis Alfredo Navas Galindo, 17792845, voted in the mesa 5…of the same centre in Bolivar. Both gentlemen were born on the same day, 1 December 1986. They came to my attention only because of that birth date.
    Similar cases are just a fraction of a fraction of voters. Still, I don’t see any impediment for whoever enabled them to “be” to add more registers with the same names but slightly different birth dates. They do not need to present a birth certificate.

    Finger prints? Mesa 2 and 4?
    Tell me this is just “an error”.
    These things are the tip of the iceberg.

    The people I know in Carabobo told me in many places the witnesses didn’t remain until the end…for different reasons.

  20. moctavio Says:

    We lost by a bundle, yes there are duplicate cedulas, no more than 9,000, we did not lose because of that. Over 90% of the witnesses turned over copias of their Actas, to me that is a great number. The fingerprint system is only there to intimidate. It looks up your fingerprint, it does not compare to any other fingerprint.

    • Kepler Says:

      Miguel, I have more than twice. As I said already: these were found to be “duplicates” because both birth date and full (Spanish) name are the same.
      You just need to know there is a centre without witness and send to that centre one bit to “optimize” votes.
      This is not the whole picture. I said it before: we lost anyway, but I believe they took 0.5% here, 0.4%, 0.4 there, etc
      Look at the pattern for Reina Sequera alone, they got probably 0.4% for that aline. It’s something else if you win because you get 54% or if you get 50%. It means a lot for authoritarian regimes.

  21. moctavio Says:

    Look the effect of the null votes was HUGE compared to that, I understand the duplicates was reduced in half. Things like Plan Republica helping Chavismo hurt more. But we got beaten beaten, they went to vote more than us. Much more. Even in proposition areas, they increased their participation. And the problem with the witnesses got reduced significantly.

  22. Kepler Says:

    Miguel, you are a scientist, please, you know this:

    the existence of these 20000-39000 records (they have been replacing double records in the last few months, go figure…not deleting them) proves there are purportedly falsified records within the CNE data

    The fact they are the only ones where full name and birth dates coincide does not prove anything else.

    We have enough proof with that that there has been tampering, we just don’t know where else in those registries until a randomized inquiry on ID holders is carried out.

    I don’t think that was carried out, only those with cambios de centro.

    As I said, there are other anomalies no one has been able to explain to me, like the 20% voters of 1976 who were born in October, as opposed to the average of 8% for most of the time we have data for (i.e. for over a century)

  23. moctavio Says:

    No, Comando Venezuela complained to CNE about them and in the RE used in this election, I was told that no more than 10,000 of these cases remained. Of course there are problems , of course these guys cheat, tamper and do all sorts of things. The point is that focusing on that does not help when you ahve a 200,000 vote problem like that of the witnesses, you have to concentrate your resources in problems you cans solve, how many times can you go toe the CNE and complain and they dont do anything? You have proof and now what? Go to God? They identified the largest problem and they focused on it. And I think they did a good job.

    All political parties get a copy of the RE every single month, all anomalies are reported.

  24. Kepler Says:

    I have the records of early 2011. I check out
    BASABE HERNANDEZ YESIKA CAROLINA|1986-12-09|18311248
    BASABE HERNANDEZ YESIKA CAROLINA|1986-12-09|18311025 (Zulia)
    I check now the latest record…the second id was changed to
    JORGE ALBERTO MONTERO PASTRAN (Miranda)
    and that is how these obvious cases seem to be “correct”,
    no further explanation? The Comando Venezuela seems to be happy with that.
    The people from Esdata do not seem to be happy with that but they are told they are crazy.
    OK
    The initial 40000 double records are 0.21%. They are now “cleaned” with different names (thus, reduced to 10000, apparently because of new names). The anomaly of the incredible October “bulges” around 1975 should account for at least as many if not more (I will check that out now).
    Those are the cases I identified in a jiffy without being an expert on this.

    I don’t know what’s bad with demanding the CNE to let a third party call the people who have cédulas from the complete pool of voters, not just the ones who moved.

  25. moctavio Says:

    Whats your proposal, not go to the elections? You havent told me what you would do with your “proof”. But again, we lost, we lost big. The comando Venezuela is composed mostly of volunteers, some of which gave up their jobs to work on the election with limited resources. I still dont know what is your proposal after they met with the CNE every month and complained about the problems with the CNE. By making a big deal about 0.4% of the vote, you scare voters away, when the bigger problems were elsewhere. that was their strategy, even with, we lost big time.

    • Kepler Says:

      My proposal is to document every single one of their shenanigans in a unique place, from all the issues with the records to the captahuellas as instrument of fear to the massive use of PDVSA and other state vehicles to the threats witnesses did receive in such places as Carabobo, to send all these to the CNE with open copy to the foreign community,
      to say that nonetheless we will participate, even if we know Chavismo will try to find any loophole it can to – again – misuse state results, etc.
      And then demand people to go to vote nonetheless.

      Apart from that we need to be sure witnesses get better organized. Miguel, I know witnesses from Guacara, from Los Guayos. Those are not very remote places but they are already a lot different from what you see in Miranda.

      “La logistica fue debil y habìa un plan para el cierre de las mesas.
      Cerraron a la hora con los que estaban, amedrentaban en los
      alrededores para que no fueran a votar mientras entraban grupos
      seleccionados por otras vias.”

      ” Ya cerrado en centro entrò por otra puerta un numeroso grupo a votar…”

      “XXX fue a buscar a YYY (these are people I know) y un
      grupo violento tomo la calle antes de llegar al centro cerrando el
      paso. Ella tuvo que decir que estaba con el gob para que la dejaran
      pasar.”

      “Pasó en Guacara y en muchos centros de votación. Muchos
      testigos fueron substituidos inclusive a la entrada del centro. El
      apoyo fue escaso. La persona que llevaba lacomida no sabìa quien
      estaba en la mesa y se dio el caso que tuvo que preguntar.”

      “Se dio también el caso que mientras estaban haciendo la auditorìa
      estaban dando los resultados por TV, recibían la información, se
      paraban y se iban…”

      There you have it.

      Of course, there many many other factors…from the fact we expected a lot of Capriles and little of the people around him and much less from the regional “leaders”. El Pollo sucks, for instance. He sucks big time

      We should have had networks of people informing the population in such places as Tocuyito, Puerto Cabello, Southern Valencia…for a long time. This is something we started just a few months ago.

      We are too divided still. Again, the example of Carabobo: Salas Feo on his side and Enzo Scarano on the other…they can’t stand each other…in the middle, a set of other organisations trying to make do with that.

      • syd Says:

        Kepler, If you fear using your real name, in publishing the results of your study, because you don’t want to affect your family members, how much credibility do you think you’ll gain as a serious proponent of fraud, as practised by the current Vz government?

        Secondly, you say you’ve written to the oppo, before, to advise of the duplicate names/cédulas, etc. But I’ve not seen any correspondence published in that regard. All I see are comments in this blog, but no concrete and full presentation of your facts and your proposals.

        • Kepler Says:

          Syd, I am not in the least interested in credibility in your eyes. You seem to be obsessed with it. You wrote me even about the way I used a nickname in my blogger account. Si no te gusta, no lo leas.

          I discuss things here with Miguel and others, but a blog in English about Venezuela has two possible purposes: 1) to inform some foreigners about the country and 2) to serve as a catharsis for Venezuelan expats who speak English…nothing more. In case you don’t know: the vast majority of Venezuelans speak Spanish as mother tongue. And it’s not blogs, not even blogs in Spanish, that they will pay attention to.

          As for the duplicates etc: I am not the only one who has said it
          Esdata has published the data and there are some articles about what they have said in the Venezuelan press.
          The data is out there for everyone to see. But it seems few except people like the ones from Esdata take the time to analyse it as they should.

          I have written directly to people from the opposition with the whole data for them to check out and they know me, personally. I don’t care a fig about proving that to you. It’s another matter what they decide to do with it.

          What have they done? Exactly what J. Caldera, the notorious Caldera, did: minimize its importance “because we are going to win anyway”.

        • syd Says:

          Kepler, you are not accurate in your obsession blame/defensive mode. To repeat what I already discussed with you, off this board… I wondered why I was receiving a gmail from you with a name that was neither associated with your real name, or with your nickname (Kepler) or even with the name of your blog. It was confusing. And we already discussed that. let’s move on, shall we?

          You have been trying to sound the alarm on the duplicate records, for years. You keep insisting that you have informed the oppo of your findings. But I haven’t seen anything reproduced, in your blog or this one, to indicate this correspondence. And, I wonder, why if Kepler is so obsessed with this (and there’s wrong with your obsession by the way), why isn’t he publishing this information in a serious and systematic format, either in his own blog or perhaps as a guest post in another blog with many more readers, interested in Vz political phenomena.

          Instead, I read little bits and bobs on how fulano or fulana is duplicated. But other than a half-dozen examples, that’s it. How serious am I going to take the matter, if that’s all I read about?

          Here’s one group of people who have systematically shown historical data in a crystal-clear manner. It’s just one example of how a show-and-tell, beautifully presented, can reveal much more than a thousand words of a repeated and fractured cry.
          http://caracaschronicles.com/2012/10/18/opposition-posterior-conveyance-in-graphical-form/

          And yes, credibility has always been a key component in my professional and private life. So sorry you have difficulty understanding its importance. That’s your choice.

  26. moctavio Says:

    To me it is hard to complain about the witnesses never had such an effort been made. All of that cost money and needs people, when you say “we should have had” we did, as much as possible and the numbers prove it.

    What we did not have was voters.

    It is documented, every month they went to the CNE with lists and requests, but again there were priorities for the limited resources, Capriles spent twice as much as the budget and even giving money to the campaign was problematic. There were worse things that happened, did you know 4% of the voting machines failed and there was no back up as promised? We are divided but I think the effort was good, Venezuelans are still pro-Chavista, there is no difference between PSUV and the Government, that is really the problem at the end.

  27. Kepler Says:

    I think the opposition did an excellent work compared to other countries (the Russian opposition is a mess, for instance).

    It is almost impossible to compete with the distribution of Chinese gadgets and pseudo-scholarships and that will remain so for a while, at least the next months, oil price permitting. Oil prices, we know, are Venezuela’s Alpha and Omega.

    Still, I think we need to make a list of things that need to be changed.

    And yes, most Venezuelans are Chavistas…or rather…they are for the flat screens. Just now two engineers in Venezuela told me they went to a shop to buy some batteries. Next to them they saw a couple they had previously seen asking for money in their streets. That couple had several children, all dressed in drags…and they were buying a huge flat screen. My contact told me he would have difficulty buying that flat screen…but somehow that poor couple could…at least could give the money.
    That’s Venezuela. And those engineers are oppo and that couple are Chavistas.

  28. CharlesC Says:

    “That’s Venezuela.” -Mr. Kepler.
    “Venezuelans are still pro-Chavista, there is no difference between PSUV and the Government, that is really the problem at the end. “- Moctavio.
    It really boils down to people believing in Chavez as their “savior”. They believe
    his promises because some actually get delivered. (Esp. in a cheap form..)But, the point is- THIS IS IDOLATRY.
    Many, many of these people have the same problem they had years ago and now there are more new ones- they need to be awakened-grow a brain. Learn
    what it means to be deprogrammed from a cult.
    And, on a different note- chavistas and many Venezuelans in general- just don’t have a clue as to what Chavez has done, is doing -handing over so much control and power to foreign entities.
    Look at this example realistically- Chavez has created more jobsin Belarus than is Venezuela?Will that investment ever pay off for Venezuela -of course not. Do most Venezuelans know anything about this-of course not.
    Wait untill tens of thousands more foreign workers come to Venezuela and Venezuelans are sitting around with no jobs…
    I am still waiting for someone from Venezuelan press to find and interview one of the 900 “expert farmers” from Cuba? It’s been a while -they are harder to find
    than FARC. Maybe we should look on Chavez’s farm?..

  29. CharlesC Says:

    “Chávez cambió repentinamente su agenda. Tenía previsto viajar a Brasil pero decidió realizarse exámenes con los médicos que han tratado a su amigo, el ex presidente Luiz Inacio Lula Da Silva, por Cuba. La razón era sencilla: «matar dos pájaros de un tiro». Es decir, hacerse un Pet Scan y visitar a su amigo Fidel Castro.” Chavez-the genius, lying,traitor-did not get “permission” to visit Cuba.
    http://www.lapatilla.com/site/2012/10/18/abc-de-espana-chavez-visita-a-castro-en-plena-tormenta-de-rumores-sobre-su-salud-deteriorada/

    Ender Jose Jimenez wrote:
    “que visite tambien a los enfermos de los hospitales de vzla pa que vea las penurias y desidia que sufren nuestros enfermos. mas que la verga va ir , no veis que el es guevon”

  30. firepigette Says:

    Charles C

    I think people are being ironic when they say that most Venezuelans are Chavistas , although I am not sure.

    One pertinent memory ( though I have many, many similar ones)Year 1998,
    Place :Plaza Las Americas Caracas, Venezuela

    Firepigette walks into a CANTV office with a serious complaint of multiple robberies on the part of CANTV workers.As she stands in line she listens to people mumbling about similar robberies committed against them.She heard things like” que porqueria de compania telefonica, son unos ladrones”, o ” me estan cobrando miles de bolivares de mas y cuando me quejo no hacen nada”

    When it is my turn to pay the bill and /or complain, I accuse them of said robberies and I vociferously demand redress.

    All the while I am demanding, complaining and accusing, the same people who were mumbling in line are horrified that I am confronting the CANTV, and start to complain against me.

    Question? Are these people pro -CANTV?

    Answer : Of course not

    What is wrong with them then?

    Answer: They believe that in the face of power, one must cower and be passive.One must allow them to get away with whatever simply because they are more powerful than oneself .They almost equate passivity with morality under the circumstance, but in reality they are behaving like people who literally create dictatorships.The so called morality here is actually FEAR.

  31. tetra Says:

    TODAVIA CREES QUE VOTASTE EN LAS ELECCIONES PASADAS EN VENEZUELA! NO SEAS PAJVDO!! TODO YA ESTABA ORGANIZADO! CHAVEZ TENIA QUE GANAR “S I O SI”!!!!!

    piesas que los VENEZOLANOS son libres? PENSA OTRA VEZ!!!

    Despierta VENEZUELA!! NO TIENES QUE ESPERAR 6 ANHOS MAS!!!


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 11,598 other followers

%d bloggers like this: