Given the uncertainty and rumors about President Hugo Chavez’ health, today’s warning from the President’s brother Adan Chavez is quite ominous. In a speech in Barinas State, Adan Chavez said:
“The revolution was born in the Bicentennial era and it made it through elections and we want it to continue that way, following a peaceful path that allows us to build Bolivarian socialism, but aware of the dangers that beset us and that the enemy does not rest, we can not forget as authentic revolutionaries, other methods of struggle. ”
He then proceeded to quote Che Guevara:
“It would be inexcusable to limit ourselves to only the electoral and not see other forms of struggle, including the armed struggle.”
Combined with the uncertainty over Chavez’ health, the fact that the President has no successor that could match his electoral abilities, this warning represents a very real threat to what little is left of democracy in Venezuela and should be condemned by the opposition and international organizations.
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July 1, 2013 at 2:21 pm
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June 29, 2011 at 2:49 pm
[…] revolution if Chávez does not return to power may also be possible. It was observed here […]
June 27, 2011 at 11:31 pm
[…] revolution if Chávez does not return to power may also be possible. It was observed here that Given the uncertainty and rumors about President Hugo Chavez’ health, today’s warning from […]
June 27, 2011 at 9:27 pm
It looks like Venezuela is heading down the road to become a North Korea or Cuba clone. Without a civil war, I doubt it will ever have a legitimate election again for a long, long time.
I hope I’m wrong. I will be very happy if I am. Very happy.
June 27, 2011 at 3:22 pm
“This is of course a life threatening illness and if he is in a coma, it explains why they can’t give a definite return date”
According to news reports today, from non other than Freddy Bernal, Chavez spoke to the directorate of the PSUV today by telephone:
http://www.eluniversal.com/2011/06/27/bernal-asegura-que-chavez-hablo-con-directiva-del-psuv.shtml
Most comments in ND about this show utter disbelief.
@FreddyBernal:Chavez conversa lleno de emoción y fortaleza con vicepresidente Jaua y DN del PSUV
June 27, 2011 at 5:13 pm
A bunch of them tweeted about that phone call, including Diosdado.
June 27, 2011 at 2:58 pm
[…] brother Adan tells the hoi-poloi to take arms if necessary to keep Chavismo rolling More on that at The Devil’s Excrement and […]
June 27, 2011 at 2:39 pm
SEPSIS / SIRS or Septic shock is the rumor that makes the most sense (with or without any kind of operation), because in most cases, the patient is in coma or on a respirator and CAN’T SPEAK, which of course we all know is something HC can’t live without regardless of medical advise. In other words, if he could speak, he would.
It also fits with the bits and pieces of symptoms that ”leaked”: fever, dizziness (or similar) when talking with Fidel, bacterial infection, peritonitis (caused by abdominal abscess), etc.
This is of course a life threatening illness and if he is in a coma, it explains why they can’t give a definite return date – after all some people never “wake up”. Regardless, if all of this is correct, he will never be the same again.
June 27, 2011 at 12:49 pm
My comment that Miguel “I Believe in free speech”Octavio deleted and did not publish warning about a bloodbath if Chavez died is borne out by this comment from Adán Chávez. Why do you think I made such a comment – since all the evidence is there and has been for years.
And I guess that being the hypocrite that you are. Miguel Octavio, you will not pubkish this either. Fascism is bad for your soul and the truth hurts.
Author’s comment: Pygmalion is so self-centered that he thinks I sit at my computer waiting to approve his comments so that the world can read them. It is not about you, your comments go for moderation, not all do, when I get to it, I get to it. Only the paranoid self-centered think they are being deleted and censored, As I have suggested so many times, start a blog, dont waste my bandwitdh.
June 27, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Pygmalion: You are such an incredible jerk
June 28, 2011 at 8:43 pm
Well, GeorgeS: I believe that he goes beyond “jerk”. I’d say that he’s earned himself “prick”.
June 27, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Don’t worry Pygmalion. No one killed him, no matter how many fake assassination plots they staged.
If he dies of illness, he died and that’s that. Who are you going to blame?
No bloodbath. Certainly not with that unpresentable corrupt minion of his brother calling for it. They are down and out. Look for another job, maybe.
June 27, 2011 at 12:30 pm
I say kill the whole Chavez klan and let the people sort out the country and quit worring about fags teabagging.
June 27, 2011 at 12:31 pm
in venezuela, it’s ok to say “maricon”
June 27, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Matter of fact it’s about the most common expression I hear around construction sites. But then Venezuela is not very politically correct, gracias a Dios. Chinese are called chino or china, dark skinned people are called negro, chocolate, indio etc. No one takes offense, or at least they didn’t used to until the Marxist doctrine became fashionable.
June 27, 2011 at 5:18 pm
it’s a term of endearment!
June 29, 2011 at 6:45 am
Straight, probably white, overprivileged, bigoted, ignorant, corrupt, fat fucks like you making the call on what the darkies find acceptable in their quaint little lives. LOVE that. So when I refer to you as a straight, probably white, overprivileged, bigoted, ignorant, corrupt, fat fuck, you shouldn’t take offense. You’re overly PC! What’s the big deal? How could anyone find that offensive? Must be the commie faggots stirring things up. Everything was so charming when our hateful speech was adopted by the people we abuse, steal from, and persecute.
July 1, 2011 at 12:59 am
Jeez OA2, take a chill pill will ya. OTT to the extreme, and BTW you are not winning, you are simply more comfortable with “coming out” because there is actually more tolerance and less bigotry around now than before, let’s hope it continues in that direction, but your vitriolic responses do not help your cause!!. Now, let’s get back to the discussion thread proper…
July 1, 2011 at 7:00 am
KKD– Walk awhile in my shoes and we’ll see if you still think it’s over the top to respond in the manner I FO. I’m very happy to lambast ignorant crap about whether I and other LGBT people are equal or just self-identified by our “sexual proclivities.” there is room for, and progress from more measured dialogue. But there would be no dialogue at all if the gays and drag queens of Stonewall hadn’t rioted and mopped up Greenwich Village with bigoted uniformed cops who were violently persecuting them. I understand my vitriol makes some uncomfotable…that’s the point. I want to do all I can to make it VERY uncomfortable for people to publically declare the hateful nonsense like what dribbles out of m-ASS-tera’s stunted brain. So wherever I and many more like me find it, we’ll be all up in people’s faces confronting it. If they don’t like it, we’re happy to meet them on the street, in the courts, and anywhere (including unrelated blogs) they want to try and defend indefensible prejudice. HAPPY to…
June 27, 2011 at 12:25 pm
island cancuck, i agree, When there is a lack of information rumours go crazy, but some of it may be red herrings to confuse us, and everybody says they have their ‘sources’. When thing is for sure he is poorly.
If he wasn’t very sick, he would definitely be calling everyday to speak on VTV. PSUV have put out a picture supposedly of PSUV members talking to Chavez on the phone today, but no audio of course!
June 27, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Dillis:
Interesting report. But with so many reports floating around who can you believe?
Now it’s a coma! What will it be later today?
June 27, 2011 at 12:30 pm
…. that he (Chavez) died and accended into heaven…………… three days passed and he was resurrected and now is seated at the right hand of God our Father.
June 27, 2011 at 7:52 pm
THE LEFT HAND, MARYP. THE LEFT HAND.
June 27, 2011 at 9:33 pm
My bad syd………… the left, leftist hand! ……….. hense, the chavista version. Very clever input……. Thanks.
June 27, 2011 at 11:56 am
This is the latest rumour going around today regarding HC’s health :
http://www.periodistadigital.com/inmigrantes/gobiernos/2011/06/27/hugo-chavez-en-estado-coma-cuba-septicemia-abceso-pelvico-fidel-castro-resiodencia-la-habana-enfermedad-twitter.shtml
June 27, 2011 at 11:08 am
I think the best we could do now is to say very publicly we expect Chávez to be present for 5th July and then to explain why he violated the constitution.
We should say that over and over again until the 5th. Whatever happens then we can only win.
Syd,
About the puffy face: I haven’t got a clue but I’d rather be cautious this time. If Chavistas are able, after all, to show Chávez in a week or two, after we have repeated we believe he is out of the game, we would lose a couple of points in the credibility circus
June 27, 2011 at 3:17 pm
I think the best we could do now is to say very publicly we expect Chávez to be present for 5th July and then to explain why he violated the constitution.
We should say that over and over again until the 5th. Whatever happens then we can only win.,/i>
^^^That!
June 27, 2011 at 11:01 am
Were he an “escuálido” he would be in jail by now. Being a rojo-rojito criminal he can say any damn thing he wants.
As has been shown by the FARC, the real business of the revolution is drug trafficking and if you have followed the news from Mexico you would know that wholesale slaughter is just business as usual.
The way to end this senseless revolution is for Uncle Sam to legalize (and tax) drugs. The revolution would be out of business in short order. Did our dear northern uncle learn nothing from Prohibition? You would think those brainy guys could put two and two together. Maybe they can, maybe the war on drugs is the better way for them to get elected.
One and a half centuries ago, when Anarchists still roamed the Earth, the revolution might have been powered by social and altruistic ideas but today the motive power is profit. Take the profit out of the drug trade and the revolution withers away. Electoral systems (politics) makes for strange bedfellows. The American right supports the war on drugs which makes revolution profitable! The inverse of Chavez mouthing off against the Yankee Imperialists while selling them oil for profit.
Una mano lava la otra y las dos nos tienen jodidos.
June 27, 2011 at 11:51 am
Captain that’s pretty radical. Juarez Mexico is what will happen in the US if you legalize cocaine. About 100 years ago, half of the US was legally addicted to cocaine or morphine. We learned about these drugs then. Pot on the other hand is only now being understood.
I prefer the approach of Congressman Mack and others to choke Chavez by putting him on the State Sponsor of Terrorism list.
June 27, 2011 at 12:34 pm
GWEH: What will happen is what happened when Prohibition was repealed. The Mafia lost an important source of revenue.
By putting Gaddafi on the State Sponsor of Terrorism list he is still in power after 43 years and Gaddafi has essentially stalemated NATO.
Let’s face it, money is much more powerful than weapons. You shoot a few drug capos and new ones sprout like mushrooms. The incentives are huge. You can become president of a country by running drugs (Evo, Hugo). You got to get rid of the breeding grounds and the way to do it is by legalizing the trade. Then you can even help drug addicts in more informed ways.
June 27, 2011 at 5:20 pm
gadaffi always had clients in Europe for his oil… chavez only has the empire
June 27, 2011 at 11:57 am
Any excuse is good to keep the good health of the State, and war, going on.
I don’t know what to make of modern conservatives. They surely don’t have the old distrust of government growth, of intrusions into privacy, of armies, special police forces and unanswerable bureaucracies.
It’s obvious at this point that certain parties do not care about the humongous incarceration rates, drug related crime and social consequences in the U.S.A.
Also, don’t forget the Taliban and Afghan warlords, they are also kept going by opium. Some day a terrorist group is going to finance the building of a weapon of mass destruction and smuggle it into a city using drug money and the methods of drug cartels… I suppose it will be a good opportunity to declare a new War.
June 27, 2011 at 10:31 am
The suspense is killing me as I expect that is exactly what they are striving for.
One minute he’s up & walking around & on the point of returning to Caracas.
The next moment I read that he’s worse then ever & is depressed.
It sure would be nice to know what is actually going on.
I remember the coup & the elation of thinking that he was gone & the terrible depression finding out 2 days later that he was back.
Please, please don’t let us go through that again.
June 27, 2011 at 3:13 pm
IC, he’s a sick leader and his minions are scurrying about, I suspect he’ll be fine but everyone is getting that first long, look at the elephant.
June 27, 2011 at 10:28 am
Syd, I heard the colon cancer story yesterday, but from someone who very much doubted that. That person had previously told me Hugo’s knee problem came because he shot himself while having a tantrum. So now my “source” passed the new rumour with more doubts.
Ver para creer. Bueno, no literalmente.
June 27, 2011 at 10:55 am
now there’s something I can believe (Ch shot himself while having a tantrum)… NOT. It doesn’t explain the really puffy face, which goes waay beyond an eating binge.
June 27, 2011 at 11:03 am
The puffy face could have many causes: Addison’s disease, kidney failure, congestive heart failure etc etc….it is the strange pallor which looks like Cancer to me.
June 27, 2011 at 11:10 am
Not to mention chicharrones llaneros con hormonas del Imperio.
Thou shouldst go to the Venezuelan Llanos these days, la de gorditos que hay.
June 27, 2011 at 11:25 am
LOL
June 27, 2011 at 11:42 am
have not heard that one… did hear he took bullet shrapnel to the ribs and somewhere else when one of his cuban guards tried to do him in for messing with his woman. This happened in his office
June 27, 2011 at 10:18 am
when I say date with justice, no idea of timeframe. this is political so not in this lifetime
June 27, 2011 at 10:13 am
fascinated by the emergence of Adan’s true role … no weak sibling… much like the Castro bros. and the al-Assad bros.
June 27, 2011 at 10:11 am
Just about the only rumor we haven’t heard is that he is practising to take over the role of Clarence Clemmons on the E Street Band.
June 27, 2011 at 10:06 am
the gringos have Adan id’d as the boss of bosses and it’s my understanding that he will eventually be indicted which would lead to extradition or rendition, trial, conviction and life in US prison. Who else is protecting all those flights
June 27, 2011 at 9:09 am
Jeez, this whole episode reminds me so much how, after every election, we had all these text messages saying that Chavez was in Fuerte Tiuna “negociando” his resignation.
I for one hope it’ s not true. This man has to pay, here, in this earth, all the harm and pain he’s caused. He has to be shown for the fraud he is.
June 27, 2011 at 9:05 am
Come on, Syd! You too? No way.
June 27, 2011 at 10:27 am
Kepler I agree with you…just stop the bull shit! This is exactly what the rojos want!
June 27, 2011 at 11:06 am
Maria Gonzales, the rojos don’t want intelligent speculation: they want power.If you are afraid of what they think all the time, you are the one that gives them power through your fear.
June 27, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Fireguette I am not afraid of what they think…but what is the intelligent point in Sid’ speculation?
Yes, I do believe that Chavez is sick and his condition is not great…but please he rest is just speculation. We should focus on what Adan Chavez said…that is a very dangerous comment that if somebody from the opposition would say the same already would be in jail…but nothing happens…
June 27, 2011 at 8:55 am
Dinora de Mata, periodista y esposa del GJ Carlos Mata Figueroa, Ministro de la Defensa, ventiló en su círculo íntimo que el diagnóstico de Hugo Chávez es cáncer de colon con metástasis. Los pronósticos, por supuesto son completamente negativos y de un desenlace cercano.
Hay devastación moral y angustia en el chavismo de arriba y temor por los radicales del sector militar.
El presidente esta destruído moralmente y se ha avejentado en pocos días. Se está manejando en algunos círculos chavistas, la idea de la renuncia y andan buscando apresuradamente un candidato que se parezca a Chávez y continúe la revolución.
El perfil que andan vendiendo es el del primer hermano, Adan Chávez.
Esta noticia está corriendo en Fuerte Tiuna.
June 27, 2011 at 9:49 am
Interesting Syd.His face certainly seems to reflect an advanced Cancer pallor…but of course I reserve much judgement as I am sure the regime keeps closed doors on the truth.
The idea of Adan Chavez makes sense as he is the only one who could create an illusion of continuation like Raul Castro would for Fidel and Evita did for Peron.
If anyone is surprised about what Adan is saying they have not been listening to HUGO for the last 6 years.He has always said that the Revolution won’t stop for any reasons, even electoral ones.
June 27, 2011 at 11:47 am
I am not surprised about their intentions. A Socialist Revolution on the Cuban mold means violence and persecution. If not at first, afterwards.
The less visible figures in chavismo and associated armed groups have said it clearly.
What is really surprising is that Adan Chavez, close as close can be with Hugo Chavez, and now an important figure is so naturally breaking with the charade they have played all this time about the peaceful, electoral Revolution that would defend itself if “threatened”. For example, by people insisting that the property they have owned is actually theirs and should continue like that, or by other people insisting that they have rights that the government should recognize.
This is a call to use violence to gain and keep absolute power.
June 27, 2011 at 8:52 am
I wouln’t expect otherwise from anyone at the top of the “robolucion” given that, normally, should they be succeeded by a democratic administration, all of them would be at the very least investigated and quite a few of them would end up in jail. But, “normally” may not apply in Venezuela, let alone the succession part (at least not just yet).
June 27, 2011 at 8:15 am
He’ll be the first one in a plane to Havana or elsewhere. Self-preservation is something these guys excel at.
June 27, 2011 at 8:11 am
He is certainly NOT confident in his brother’s ability to win the Presidency again. Or to do anything maybe. Even with all the unfair advantages.
We should lose no time in showing this to the world, and in panning this man thoroughly.
On the other hand, I would not be shed one tear if this corrupt MoFo tries that in Venezuela, and catches a bullet with his foul mouth. Only he will not.
June 27, 2011 at 7:26 am
[…] Nota completa:http://devilsexcrement.com/2011/06/27/and-ominous-warning-against-democracy-from-hugo-chavez-brother… […]
June 27, 2011 at 6:46 am
qué horror (el video).
Christopher Toothaker reports for AP (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1015324–possible-armed-struggle-as-venezuela-ponders-chavez-s-health-says-brother?bn=1), mentioning the curve ball that HCF’s absence from politics would throw at the oppo.
June 27, 2011 at 3:27 am
I’m tempted to say “who would follow that bozo?” but I’ve been wrong about that too many times. Still, he doesn’t appear to be very charismatic or revolutionary, despite the red shirt.
June 27, 2011 at 3:50 am
I think the point is not who follows this bozo…the point is that this will be a perfect example of how the rojos can say what ever they want with not consequences…if this was somebody from the opposition, all the focas rojas would be in VTV with ridiculous accusations such has ” todo su 11 tiene su 13″, “lacayos del imperio”, “incitacion a la violencia” etc, etc.
June 27, 2011 at 4:01 am
genau! That’s the point. We should follow this through, insist, insist, insist until they give an absolute acto de fe. But no, we run from one scandal to the next. we must force them to show their true colours even if they will try to be as wobbly as possible
June 27, 2011 at 3:21 am
mirafloresology
June 27, 2011 at 2:45 am
aquí está:
a partir de 2:05
June 27, 2011 at 2:38 am
Miguel, I made a link to the video, in case a foreigner would think the Marqués de Chávez was not quoted properly.
I wonder if the alternative forces will use this. They are often not aware of priorities when it comes to what issues have the most impact and sometimes they struggle for ages about something that is not priority.
Chávez should go to jail for this alone already
June 27, 2011 at 1:58 am
Agree with you Miguel. My post:
http://cuentosintrascendentes.blogspot.com/2011/06/la-havana-capital-de-venezuela.html
June 27, 2011 at 1:24 am
Does he also dyes his hair? Revolutionary leaders too concerned for their looks, a good field combatant do not make. He should apply for a position in a beauty pageant, or something of that sort. Nothing against faggots, except when faggots lecture about brazen manliness.
June 27, 2011 at 6:34 am
Seriously? You use the word faggot? Fuck you. I’m gay and I’d punch your bigoted face if I knew who you were. Brazen manliness? You have no idea what being a man is punk.
June 27, 2011 at 7:39 am
El pleistoceno superior en la cabeza, vale…que vergüenza.
June 27, 2011 at 8:48 am
I’m afraid the dearth of my Spanish abilities as well as my ignorance about the significance of you glacial epoch reference conspire to prevent me from understanding what it is you mean.
June 27, 2011 at 9:17 am
He meant (I think) that CarlosEliot is less than commendable in his way of thinking. As you said, he seems to be a bigot through and through.
June 27, 2011 at 11:35 am
Seriously? You use the word faggot? Fuck you. I’m gay and I’d punch your bigoted face if I knew who you were.
Here is a previous OA2 comment at Devil’s Excrement: This guy has a promising future as a teabagger/GOP consultant.
From the Urban Dictionary, “teabagging” is defined as The act of dipping a man’s ball sack into another person’s mouth with the intent of sexual gratification.. A “teabagger” would therefore be someone who participates in such an act. It usually refers to a homosexual, not a heterosexual act.
OA2 would punch someone in the face for using the term “faggot,” yet he refers to his political opponents in the above manner.
Interesting psychology there.
June 27, 2011 at 9:53 pm
Gringo, I believe that OA2’s mention of “teabaggers” was a reference to the guys that support Sarah Palin’s ideology(?) and not the, uhm, pranksters.
June 27, 2011 at 10:44 pm
Years before the Tea Party came on the political scene, the term “teabagger” referred to a licker of testicles. Back in the spring of 2009,“journalists” Anderson Cooper, Rachel Maddow et al clearly intended a double entendre with sexual innuendo when they applied the term “teabagger” to Tea Party adherents. Proof is in a video of Anderson Cooper saying ”It’s hard to talk when you’re teabagging,” which elicited a laugh from David Gergin. If there were no sexual innuendo in the term, why would David Gergin be laughing? If there was no sexual innuendo in the term, then why did Anderson Cooper later apologize?
Smirk, smirk, those Tea Party adherents are “teabaggers,” so they are also testicle lickers. Both Cooper and Gergin clearly understood that the term “teabagger” referred to licking testicles. As does OA2.
Make mo mistake. When the term “teabagger” is applied to Tea Party adherent or to “the guys that support Sarah Palin’s ideology(?),” the sexual innuendo of testicle licker is also applied.
June 28, 2011 at 9:33 am
By the way, “teabaggers” is how that rag tag bunch of extremists originally referred to themselves, which us why so many people found it so funny. They thrn switched to tea-“tea-partiers.”. And Anderson Cooper? A closeted, demigogging tight, black t-shirt posing as a journalist.
June 27, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Anyone who identifies what they are by their sexual proclivities, especially so strongly that they offer violence to someone whose use of a common descriptive offends their primary identity…..is a fucking loser.
It’s hard for me to imagine being so shallow as to “be” the result of one’s sex habits.
Also, it pisses off some of us who love the English language to have one of our oldest words meaning lighthearted and happy, even dashing and adventurous, co-opted for use as a descriptive for deviant sexual behavior. Look up deviant, OK?
June 28, 2011 at 7:58 am
M_Ass-tera. You’ve long been dealt with. I don’t self identify by my “sexual proclivities,” you prurient fuck, I self identify as an american who happens to have been born gay and will no longer tolerate ignorant shitwads like you and all your homophobic, redneck bullshit. I self identify as someone who fights back against the violence insinuated and perpetrated by words like faggot. These days we are no longer afraid, so dumb fucks like you need to be. What do you expect? That we’ll mince away when confronted by your pathetic retro bigotry? Little by little we’re gaining equality, and making ignoramuses into silent, stupid fucks instead of vocal ones. So bring it on redneck. We have an agenda alright, and morons like you are in the top 3 of our list.
June 27, 2011 at 10:03 pm
no need to turn to violence, OA2… you seem to be North American and thus (a) overly PC sensitive and (b) unfamiliar with Latin American use of terms that you consider to be aggressive.
I don’t mean to say that there is no bigotry in LatAm, but down here you don’t have to be black in order to call someone “negro” nor do you have to be gay in order to call someone “marico” because in everyday use of these words no one really takes offense – unless the terms are used in an offensive way, which would leave little room for doubt, and I believe that isn’t the case here.
June 28, 2011 at 6:47 am
moder, you are correct that OA2 is US citizen. Were he not a US citizen, and thus not someone who kept up with the complex details of US politics, it might be possible that OA2 was not aware of the double meaning of “teabagger.” However, as a US citizen interested in politics, OA2 was fully aware of the double meaning of “teabagger” in place ever since Anderson Cooper made his remark back in April ’09. OA2 clearly intended that “supporters of Sarah Palin”/Republicans/Tea Party adherents [what have you] were labeled as lickers of testicles. See my above comment @ 10:44 p.m. July 27.
June 28, 2011 at 8:26 am
Thanks for the cultural lessons everyone, but a) I’ve lived in Latin America full or part time since 1992, and I’m aware of the difference between the colloquial use of “maricon” and the violence-based “faggot.” If CarlosElios doesn’t understand the difference, then I’m happy to make him aware. I disprove of “maricon” by the way, in the same way I recoil when black people in the US call one another “Nigga.” the roots of both words are hate-filled and ugly. And b) I learned the phrase “teabagging” from a John Waters movie, and there was no licking involved. God heterosexuals have some sick sexual proclivities…when ate we gonna vote on YOUR rights? And c) “overly PC” is often a phrase used to excuse pushback from blatantly offensive use of derrogatory remarks. Well, again my point us made and I believe understood in thus forum. Talk shot at your own peril. We are fighting back. Oh, and to quote that hetero bastion of morality Charlie Sheen, we are WINNING!!!