So, the story is like this:
Yesterday, Maduro’s team was telling diplomats and reporters that at 1:00 PM Maduro was ahead by 2% of the votes. At that time, it looked as if abstention was going to be more like 30% of the total number of voters. In the next couple of hours, participation increased dramatically, but the increase was higher in traditionally more pro-opo centers than in pro-Chávez centers. However, by 4 PM Chavismo was projecting a victory by 1-2% of the vote.
Meanwhile in Capriles’ camp, all that was being counted at that point was participation. They had the same 30% abstention projection at 1 PM, but then it accelerated and they began projecting 22-23% abstention at the end of the day. But they could see the details and the participation by 4 PM in the more pro-opo centers was 75% (top 50% pro-opo centers) versus 69% in the pro-Chávez centers.
When the Actas began arriving, the opposition counting center began seeing a virtual tie from the time it had 20% of the tallies. Essentially, within the error of the tally, it was impossible to predict who was winning. If you added the international votes, then they would get a Capriles victory.
This continued and the Capriles team was hearing that Chavismo was saying that Maduro had an advantage of a quarter of a million votes. As the night went on, Capriles decided to call Maduro and told him that his numbers were saying the race was too tight and any announcement should be held off. Maduro told Capriles that he had to check (??) and never called back. Within twenty minutes CNE made the announcement.
Meanwhile, at the CNE, Vicente Diaz had argued that no announcement should be made and they should wait to reconcile the numbers. Vicente Diaz also suggested that the CNE itself shoudl call for an audit, something it can do. He was voted down and the announcement was made.
Today, Vicente Diaz went to CNE where there was supposed to be a meeting and instead found that Maduro would be proclaimed as the winner, while the meeting in which he was going to formally propose that a complete counting of the ballots and tallies be made, was not going to take place.
Thus, Vicente Diaz decided not to go to the proclamation.
At which point I ask: Why the rush? Why make the announcement if things were not clear or there were doubts? Why rush to proclaim Maduro if he was not planned to be sworn in until Thursday?
That is the big “if”, Maduro who alraedy stars weak with a very small victory, makes himself more illegitimate by trying to be proclaimed early and while he claims he wants to count the boxes, the suggestion is this may not happen.
Meanwhile, Capriles was calling for people not to go out and protest, but instead participate in a pot banging tonight at 8 PM, as well as marches in all regional CNE’s tomorrow and one on Wednesday to the CNE to formally request a complete recount of all the ballots and comparison with tallies and the voting notebooks.
But students had a mind of their own and began protesting in many parts of the country. In Caracas, near Plaza Altamira and the Autopista, students gathered to protest. Chavista motorcycles began showing up and there appeared that there would be confrontations. Then opposition motorcycles showed up and Chavistas fortunately left.
Meanwhile, the Government sent out the National Guard, who used tear gas to disperse the crowd away from the Autopista. I managed to get a little close at that time. Here are some protesters:
And here is the National Guard holding strong to stop students from going down to the Autopista:
And here is a picture of the fires the students built to stop the National Guard from going through:
And in the only gesture of peace and conciliation of the last 24 hours, Maduro ordered tonight that the National Guard withdraw from Altamira and the Autopista.
Things are tense. Very Tense. Falcon said some Generals have been detained because they disagreed with decision to announce the results. Others tell me they are searching for Capriles’ Minister of Defense “in pectore”. The European Union, OAS, US and other UNASUR countries have sent the message they will not recognize Maduro until votes are counted again.
Stay tuned…
But I just don’t believe any votes will be recounted and ballot boxes found in at elast eight places around the country, either being dispose of or being burned suggest I will be right. Fraud is the only word that comes to mind…
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April 16, 2013 at 6:14 pm
It’s not that Venezuelans are so tired of the corruption. Venezuelans expect corruption, especially in government. What people are more sick and tired of is the utter incompetence and complete lack of class of these clownish thugs who can’t even lie well.
I would suggest Capriles call for a recount, while knowing full well if it is done it will be fraudulent. It is another legal and constitutionally valid method of exposing the criminality and incompetent blundering of the incumbent pretenders.
April 16, 2013 at 5:58 pm
Another excellent interview was taking place on globovision with Capriles before maduro cut away to the 3rd cadena today.
Capriles addressed some of the proof in hand that some of you have been requesting today, and they have done their homework. They have more documents, photos and proofs than I ever thought they had, and when asked if Capriles thought he had won he responded with a very definitive yes. They thought it was close sunday night, but now he is confident that the gap is much larger than previously thought in his favor. There is more than enough proof to proclaim Capriles the winner. But in order to be able to submit the proof, a recount has to be ordered. That is why maduro and company are so nervous that they rushed the confirmation, are denying an audit, and have resorted to violence in the street to blame the opposition in order to blame and arrest Capriles.
April 16, 2013 at 5:49 pm
The third cadena of the day has started with more threats from Maduro.
On another note it looks like someone may have read my comments to Capriles today (probably not). He did what was necessary – pulling the people from the streets & explaining fully his position on the vote recount.
I wasn’t aware that where there were irregularities like refusing witnesses, assisted voting, etc. the votes from those centers must be declared null & a new election held in those centers.
The abuses that occurred involved millions of votes.
He also emphasized his conviction that he had won the election just based on the numbers they have without taking into account all the abuses.
He called for more “pot banging” tonight & every night at 8 PM but asked his followers to stay in their homes to avoid confrontations.
He’s The Man!
April 16, 2013 at 6:09 pm
Looks like we both started typing as soon as maduro went into cadena. You are right…Capriles is the man. The more I see and hear, the more I like him.
April 16, 2013 at 3:59 pm
The US doctrine of recognition does not depend upon legitimacy, democratic or otherwise. It recognizes a state which is in control of its territory. So far, the US has confined itself to suggesting that a recount should be done in the interests of transparency.
April 16, 2013 at 3:06 pm
Looks like US not ready to recognize Maduro.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2013/04/16/US-Does-Not-Recognize-New-Venezuelan-Government
April 16, 2013 at 3:00 pm
Hora de ponerse los pantalones largos.
April 16, 2013 at 2:59 pm
There seems to be very little international pressure on Maduro to accept a recount; the US has publicly refrained from congratulating the new president and has asked for a recount; Colombia has been indirectly wishing for a recount; the rest of South America has been rushing to embrace Maduro; pretty sickening.
April 16, 2013 at 2:55 pm
Can you access CNE site now? I haven’t been able to do that for days.
April 16, 2013 at 3:02 pm
Kepler, I just got in with no problems however I’m in Venezuela.
I’ve heard that they have it blocked to outsiders.
http://www.cne.gov.ve/web/index.php
April 16, 2013 at 3:22 pm
It’s blocked outside Venezuela.
April 16, 2013 at 5:20 pm
Do you know why? And whether it’s likely to be re-opened at some point (perhaps for the benefit of venezolanos living outside of their country)?
April 16, 2013 at 2:53 pm
Rafael Uzcátegui @fanzinero 11m
Maduro, por la vía de los hechos, suspende garantía constitucional de derecho a la protesta
He just suspended constitutional rights to protest.
What a coward.
Typical dictator reaction.
April 16, 2013 at 3:12 pm
I’m having trouble confirming this tweet.
None of the news services are confirming that he in fact has suspended constitutional rights other than denying the march in Caracas tomorrow.
Stay tuned. Cadena is now running more than 50 minutes.
April 16, 2013 at 2:51 pm
César Batiz @CBatiz 5m
Maduro: “Si nos volviéramos locos nosotros no quedaría polvo sobre polvo”, llamado de paz del Presidente proclamado
Another peaceful thought
April 16, 2013 at 2:44 pm
Globovisión @globovision 2m
Maduro: Nosotros pudiéramos llevar un millón de personas a la casa de Henri Falcón
Globovisión @globovision 2m
Maduro: ¿Qué pasaría si yo me volviera loco y nos fuéramos a las casas de ellos?
Wow. Peaceful talk Maduro.
April 16, 2013 at 2:37 pm
So, rush to announce
Rush to proclaim
Deny the recount
It is all Capriles’ fault, he should be jailed
Yes, very transparent and clear.
April 16, 2013 at 2:29 pm
Unfortunately, I already left, harder to get good, reliable, info now.
April 16, 2013 at 2:28 pm
They needa recount, if you can showMadurowon by less than20,000, then you know so ething is rotten. Yes, they will present all the irregularities tomorrow too, including the fact thatthe electoral registry was closed and there were49,000 more voters than in October in the final result.
April 16, 2013 at 2:27 pm
The second cadena national has just started 5 minutes before Capriles is scheduled to speak to the country.
More blaming of Capriles for deaths. Here comes the hammer.
Screaming Revolution, Revolution!!
April 16, 2013 at 2:03 pm
What I’m reading elsewhere is that the main issue is not so much the vote tallies, but the abuses on Sunday and where these abuses ocurred, the results from those tables should be voided. Is this what we’re after? If so, many people om both sides won’t be happy because then their legitimate votes wouldn’t be counted. Please someone clarify if this is so. Thanks.
April 16, 2013 at 1:31 pm
PaperPushers and BeanCounters can natter on and on …
also bring in the Slick Tongues, the Trolls, whatever…
and still half of Venezuela feels ROBBED of their Destiny.
This is a POLITICAL situation,
Accounting for papeletas isn’t going to cut it.
April 16, 2013 at 12:11 pm
Rocío San Miguel @rociosanmiguel 1min
Maduro prohibe la marcha al centro de Caracas mañana y ordena “mano dura”. Tendrá que suspender las garantías constitucionales entonces…
April 16, 2013 at 11:59 am
The main point that Capriles is trying to convey is not that the vote was close and that the votes recorded were correct and need to be counted to confirm, but that it was close because the government resorted to 3,200 documented violations to make it so. The undocumented tricks that took place through the day (for sure at the 6% unmonitored stations) as well as the reported injections after the tables closed were just icing on the cake.
Capriles is taking a stand to nonviolently expose the failures within this cne cuban directed system. It should be no different if maduro won by 10%. If you don’t address the corruption, there will be zero confidence in the system from this day forth. This my friends is worth the effort by not only Capriles, but from every person who has or will cast a vote in Venezuela in the future. If you don’t take a stand now, your vote will not be worth the effort to cast it, and maduro or a similar piece of shit will be signed in again in 6 years.
April 16, 2013 at 12:07 pm
Maduro is in cadena right now threatening Capriles with arrest & blaming him for all the violence.
This is not going to end well. If he has the proof he better do it by 3 PM or all will be lost. There are flooding the airwaves to justify the repression that is sure to come.
April 16, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Arresting Capriles will hurt Maduro even more. He will quickly be exposed to the international community and all of Venezuela as a cheater.
April 16, 2013 at 12:27 pm
He is already exposed and he will do this before the eyes of everyone!
April 16, 2013 at 11:47 am
Capriles will address the foreign press at 2.30 PM (Venezuela time).
The government is pulling out all the stops to blame Capriles for everything.
All the big guns are appearing on TV with threats.
This is going to get uglier & Capriles’ arrest is probably the next on the list.
Diosdado is now on live.
April 16, 2013 at 11:50 am
Jeanelie Briceño C @jbriceno_gv 22m
Henrique Capriles se pronunciará a las 3 de la tarde
April 16, 2013 at 12:04 pm
“The government is pulling out all the stops to blame Capriles for everything.
All the big guns are appearing on TV with threats.
This is going to get uglier & Capriles’ arrest is probably the next on the list”
http://www.lapatilla.com/site/2013/04/16/diosdado-cabello-solicitara-investigacion-a-falcon-ocariz-y-capriles/
Now, on the twittersphere:
Jueces de Venezuela @JuecesdeVzla 1h
Ayer informamos que “régimen” planea imputar a HCR por rebelión, ya voceros chavistas han dado varios avisos de que así sucederá!
Jueces de Venezuela @JuecesdeVzla 1h
Este personaje, Zinnia Briceño, “culebrita” es la encargada de coordinar este plan en los tribunales penales de Caracas, anoten ese nombre!
April 16, 2013 at 11:26 am
It’s been explained, it takes time to put the proof up. It would be great to see at least raw data online before Friday. Six percent is a lot better than the previous two attempts remember Rosales? All too familiar with crying foul and not putting up. Happened in the last Dominican Republic elections. Maintaining the momentum difficult but fuck if they did not cheat outright. This was blatant.
April 16, 2013 at 11:18 am
Island:
I understand what you say, if he has proof why hasn’t he shown it?
My guess is that the MUD doesn’t know for sure that they won, but that it’s too close to call, and want a full 100% audit.
Now, Im pretty sure that the govt has 100% of the actas. If they are so sure that they won fair and square, they would know because of that, and let “the burguesito” do whatever he wants and when the 100% audit has been done they would be able to say that maduro is legit and that we have the absolute best electoral system in the world. The govt would have a lot to win if the 100% audit is done on this scenario because it would erode the opposition’s credibility and it’s morale.
But the fact that the government is so strongly denying it can only point that there was/is some hanky panky that doens’t show so clearly on the final tally, but shows clear as day on the 100% audit.
As my mom would put it: “estan destapando una verdad con una duda” (they’re [MUD] uncovering a truth based on a doubt).
As you, I ignore what Capriles’ strategy is… but one thing is for sure: the government is trying hard to hide and that can only reinforce Capriles’ position.
I just hope that mañana we don’t have another 11 de abril de 2002…
April 16, 2013 at 11:54 am
I think we have to give Capriles and the MUD the benefit of the doubt. It is not that they didn’t have enough time to discuss and plan around the different scenarios, including Capriles’ incarceration. They have been working on this since last december, when we all knew that Chavez demise was imminent.
Also we have to remember that whatever Capriles would show as proof, the chavistas will quickly say is false, forged, etc. etc.
Kernel – your mom is very wise….!
Patience.
April 16, 2013 at 2:26 pm
Again, what do you want? A spreadsheet? And? Thecne will showtneirs.
April 16, 2013 at 11:16 am
I agree with island canuck; the Capriles camp needs to quickly and specifically start to articulate what they think has happened. Projections are much too vague at this point and the stakes are rising by the hour (demonstrations/repression). I realize their position is very, very difficult though.
My fear is that they’re stalling because they’re not sure what, if anything, they can prove.
April 16, 2013 at 2:25 pm
On oct. 7th. They had the same range of data and withlessthan 10%they knewthe result. Ifyouhave 85% of the data and know where the data is missing, you know what happened quite well.
April 16, 2013 at 10:49 am
How can I tell you differently: Capriles’ camp projects too close to call without international vote that gives him about 60,000 votes, there is no way in hell Maduro won by what they claim.
April 16, 2013 at 10:57 am
6%?. Sorry, we dropped the ball Miguel. Say sayonara. Black swan only works in academic settings.
April 16, 2013 at 2:23 pm
Who is talking black swan? These are tallies.
April 16, 2013 at 10:58 am
Ok, but he needs to say that himself to give it credibility & clarity.
Miguel, it’s not up to you to convince us – it’s up to him even more so now with Uribe sticking his nose in this.
I have the utmost respect for you & your connections within the MUD.
If it’s just the International votes that are the difference then he’s going to have a VERY difficult time. Historically they have never paid any attention to them.
April 16, 2013 at 2:24 pm
Thats what it is, nothing more, nothingless
April 16, 2013 at 10:35 am
OK. Let me see if I understand this. We do not have copies of the actas of 6% of the voting tables. So we have copies for the other 94% original actas. I’m assuming we didn’t have witnesses at these 6% of the tables because they were in remote location, difficult to man, and therefore would not represent a large population. The actas that were burned or trashed, would these be part of the 94% we have copies of?
I just wish we had more precise info on what we think the final result really is and why.
April 16, 2013 at 10:37 am
Exactly.
The Capriles camp is asking people to put their lives on the line in blind faith.
I know he’s religious but a lot of people aren’t.
Let’s have the facts.
April 16, 2013 at 10:41 am
I think it is better to have faith than to have to undergo outright abuse of power every day..
April 16, 2013 at 10:26 am
The locations are where the boxes were found, not which voting place they were from.
April 16, 2013 at 10:39 am
Unfortunately, the CNE will not do a total recount without any type of hint that something went wrong. If we don’t have the actas at hand, we are back to the black swan proofs of the 2004 referendum. That didn’t work for us then and won’t work now. In fact it set us back many years. Granted Maduro ain’t Chavez but Capriles could come out looking like Mourinho even if he is right.
April 16, 2013 at 10:24 am
Canuck: Capriles is not claiming such a large margin, Uribe only confuses people by saying something that Capriles and his command are not claiming
April 16, 2013 at 10:25 am
Then we are back to square one.
April 16, 2013 at 10:23 am
Miguel, any word on how many of the bingo terminals (voting machines) failed? Saw something about 500 machines giving problems. Too high, these machines are complicated with too many moving parts and prone to unacceptably high failure rates (downtime).
April 16, 2013 at 10:22 am
I posted poctures of Barinas incident
April 16, 2013 at 10:28 am
Seems legit
April 16, 2013 at 10:19 am
Ok, if this is true then Capriles HAS to confirm it.
It’s exactly what I’ve been saying.
That’s more than 480,00 votes & that would get my full support but he has to say it himself. Come on hermano – be straight with us. Don’t let an ex Colombian president do it for you.
Álvaro Uribe Vélez @AlvaroUribeVel 2h
Comunidad;”Capriles ganó,381.781 de ventaja,sin contar el exterior,aproximadamente 100.000más. Las actas originales así lo hacen constar”
April 16, 2013 at 10:31 am
Agree, although I do think it is good to see that Capriles does not give in.
April 16, 2013 at 10:17 am
There are two ways to have a recount, you ask for it or the CNE decides to have it. Vucente Diaz has proposed it, it was denied. Now Capriles has to request it. Cne has twenty days to accept it. Tibisay already said votes will not be counted, so has Maduro, rodriguez and Cabello.
Capriles has said it is close, close is not 300 k votes, close is too close to call with missing actas.
April 16, 2013 at 10:16 am
There is nothing new here except Capriles’ win and that was predicted by many. All the opposition can do is in the court of international public opinion and that’s where everyone comes in. If a recall referendum is the next step so be it but the issue of smartmatic becomes more extreme. They would love to run with more transparency even paper ballots but who’s gonna let them? I really think pueblo has a very long way to go before you get this crew out of power. I look at things from an international and global perspective and it’s not gonna happen for now.
April 16, 2013 at 10:12 am
No, witnesses were not allowed in about 6% of places, thus no actas. But they lnow the history pf those centers and you can extrapolate the result and error
April 16, 2013 at 10:20 am
Is there a list of these place? That way we could check them on the CNE page and see if the numbers reported look way out of whack.
April 16, 2013 at 10:27 am
Did they use these voting centers without witnesses to electronically stuff the ballots or was the final tally cooked at the totalization room?
April 16, 2013 at 10:55 am
Miguel, Sorry we dropped the ball and we are fools for this. I am sure they have probably used this scheme in every election, so I am pissed as the next guy that we were robbed. BUT, we let it be, we should have been there. A black swan won’t work to prove a different result. Most people don’t even know what a white swan is. We are the ones to blame for it. Back to 2004 territory and we should get out. Damn it this is painful to hear.
April 16, 2013 at 9:18 pm
We couldn’t be there because opposition witness that try to go there are threatened and forcibly removed, if they insist on staying they only get imprisoned or killed.
Seriously what country do you live on? Because it’s certainly not Venezuela.
April 16, 2013 at 10:11 am
I understand what Canuck is saying and agree with him. What I’ve been reading and hearing from Capriles makes me think that the irregularities are not necessarily with the actual vote count; which could be easier to prove. What I understand from Capriles speeches is that what’s going to increase his vote are the international vote and vote from the border. The international vote I understand and it probably is somewhere around 60K.
In reference to the border vote, I’m not sure exactly what this is, but I’m assuming that these are votes that weren’t cast because the borders with Colombia were closed. If this is the case, I would agree with him. However, there’s no practical way to prove how many votes these would’ve been and how many would’ve favored Capriles. So all this would prove is that the goverment and CNE abused their power to favor the outcome but wouldn’t really tell me how many more votes we would’ve gotten. The same goes for the accompanied vote. It is clearly wrong/illegal, but doesn’t tell me how many less votes Madure would’ve received. This could only be resolved by holding the elections again in a really fair and transparent way.
I just wish we were clearly informed of what we expect to find, how this will affect the final tally and what is needed to do once the results come out.
April 16, 2013 at 9:19 am
Miguel, thanks for being there and for your serious and balanced views.
April 16, 2013 at 9:04 am
Did I read correctly that some generals who were for a recount had been detained? If true, was it an isolated event? Was there any “collegial” reaction from other top officers to that?
April 16, 2013 at 9:10 am
I heard that to. I smell dictadura…
April 16, 2013 at 9:22 am
I smell troll.
April 16, 2013 at 9:34 am
“You don’t say?!” Lol
April 16, 2013 at 8:44 am
Miguel, I get your point and I get Canuck’s point.
I am afraid Chavismo will produce some deaths. They are capable even of using US rifles with US munition to kill their own people, some minor fish, to do this.
They are surely infiltrating, also spreading pictures that are not like this but fake ones or from other times, only to discredit us in front of the international press in due time. We need to be extremely careful. Capriles must speak ASAP (including the international press)
April 16, 2013 at 8:50 am
Problem is that they will do ANYTHING to keep their chavista stronghold alive. So yeah there will blood flowing sooner or later. Better sooner than later, because maybe they will be organizing site seeing flights for oppo members in a year or so. Just like Argentina did a while ago. It is THAT serious
April 16, 2013 at 12:25 pm
Are you going to be there? Are you putting yourself in the front line and let it be your blood for your country?
April 17, 2013 at 6:31 am
Of course. My whole family is. And this remark will get us nowhere. Whats your plan? Try for an intelligent discussion with Caballo? Good luck.. don’t get me wrong. I still think we are on the same side.
April 16, 2013 at 8:43 am
[…] opposition, pointing to irregularities in the election, said it wouldn’t recognize the result and began to demonstrating across the country, as the […]
April 16, 2013 at 8:38 am
Maybe Maduro has something to win if he do like they have something to hide, the opposition bites the bait and let him put some people in jail or exile, consolidates as a strong man and then show that there was no -formal- fraud…
Or some deaths that can be attributed to the opposition refusing to accept the results.
If I were Capriles I would be calling for demonstrations only at daylight and in a very ordered manner (he has not done otherwise), they will be using any error against him and the opposition.
April 16, 2013 at 8:14 am
Maduro takes his directions from Cuba. Of that I have no doubt. The Castros have nothing to lose by telling Maduro to refuse a recount, everything to lose if there is a recount.
April 16, 2013 at 7:49 am
Close up of seal in boxes found in Barinas:
http://impresodigital.el-nacional.com/ediciones/zoom.asp?dia=16&mes=04&anio=2013&wImg=604&hImg=450&imagen=20130416_NACI1_6_1_F1&leyenda=Una–x–caja–x–con–x–papeletas–x–electorales–x–fue–x–arrojada–x–por–x–el–x–Plan–x–Rep%FAblica–x–en–x–la–x–troncal–x–5–x—-x—-x–YONNY–x–CAMACHO–x—-x–
Boxes:
http://www.talcualdigital.com/ediciones/zoom.asp?dia=16&mes=04&anio=2013&wImg=452&hImg=744&imagen=20130416_TALC1_4_1_G2&leyenda=
April 16, 2013 at 7:49 am
An open comment to Henrique Capriles:
During this campaign many millions of people believed in you & trusted you as evidenced by the high level of participation in both your appearances & in the voting.
You have stated that you “believe” you won & based on this information you are calling 10s of thousands of people into the street today to present themselves at the CNE headquarters in each state. They will show up there on your word. You & I both know what’s going to happen when they do.
Unfortunately the wave of doubt is growing. In my own family there are those questioning whether, in fact, you have solid proof that you won.
Hermano, if you have this proof now is the time to show it before people get hurt or killed. If the cause is just people will do anything for you.
If it’s just a suspicion that you won then call this off now before it escalates out of control.
If the difference is so small that there is doubt let it go & wait for another time. They’ll never back down.
If the difference is significant then you have my support but let’s see the proof.
April 16, 2013 at 7:55 am
what is proof to you? If Capriles resents a spreadsheet that adds to a Capriles victory, is that proof?
No, the CNE will present a spreadsheet saying Maduro won
April 16, 2013 at 8:31 am
My point exactly Miguel.
The blood of Venezuelans will be on his hands if he does not have irrefutable proof that he won with a comfortable margin of votes.
We always said that he had no chance in a very close race.
Now is the time to weigh his % of chance of winning against people being killed or injured.
These thugs are not going to give in – never. So why is he doing this?
If he won by say 500,000 & can prove it then onward & upward.
But if we are talking “perceptions” then he has to let it go.
April 16, 2013 at 8:37 am
He said it, too close to call with his actas. What else do you want?
April 16, 2013 at 8:46 am
Capriles’ actas must match CNE’s?. Otherwise the triple threat breaks down doesn’t it?. The serious problem I have is that if Capriles only has 80% and they are simply extrapolating to the total the CNE reported they could be meando fuera del perol and we will look like fools. One thing is to demand a recount to please the electorate but another is to claim that it’s too tight without all the actas.
April 16, 2013 at 9:30 am
No he said he won, Devil. That’s what island cancuck is talking about. The dead will be fighting because they believe they won. Not because it’s too close to call. He must at the minimum say why he thinks he won. Lay it out clearly. If his actas show a trend that would be impossible to game, then say it.
If his actas do not reflect the CNE results posted online, then say it. Don’t even have to prove it, just let the people know how strong the evidence is so that they know what they’re fighting for. As it stands now they think they are fighting for a victor.
April 16, 2013 at 8:42 am
I think this is a load of bs. Capriles goal is only to prove how rotten the CNE as a government organ has become. That it is rotten does not need further explanation I think. The whole government body has become a Chavista cesspool where corruption and fraud thrives. People are fed up with the abuse, hence the spontaneous protests yesterday. Mind you that Capriles did not call for these protests. It is the peoples will and it is the people vs a corrupt government. Everybody is just fed up with this.
April 16, 2013 at 8:40 am
Then he can’t win – ever.
He has to back down.
I know this is hard for a proud man to do but if he knows he can’t win then don’t get people hurt. There is always another day. If not he’ll end up being another Andres Velasquez.
April 16, 2013 at 8:46 am
Blabla bullshit… you are so full of yourself that you thive on posting your chavista ideas on a oppo forum.. way to go..
April 16, 2013 at 8:51 am
You are obviously new to this forum. Not one of the regular forum members would ever think that I have “chavista ideas”. You are confusing rational thought with extremism.
April 16, 2013 at 8:58 am
With you ideas you are trying to pet a tiger. Back down because someone might get hurt… this is what the chavistas want us to do. Time for a change because I do not want to see my sister in kaw getting locked up in a military school to be abused.. Chavez was not the evil dictator that people say he was. Maduro and his henchmen are a whole different ballgame
April 16, 2013 at 9:33 am
island canuck is a huge supporter of Capriles, so drop the insults, please. They just don’t want to see Venezuelans fighting for a misrepresentation or an outright falsehood.
April 16, 2013 at 10:23 am
Sorry but I am just fed up with the attitude of some. It is just so evident and clear that this country is run by a cesspool of corrupt, extremist and fraudulent thieves so what do you want?
Does it really matter if the vote count, which is non transparent by the way, will come up short. The people are not fighting for a vote count, they are fighting because they are fed up with the abuse, corruption, insecurity and fraud.
That never is and will be a ‘misrepresentation’ or ‘a falsehood’.
April 16, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Chavistas want the chaos and people to get hurt!!! Proof is what it just happened: first, Luisa Ortega saying they were 8 people dead, and right after, Maduro blaming Capriles and now they’ll go after him.
I’m sorry but you sound so immature that it’s scary. Haven’t you learned anything from Feb27, Apr11 and more?
Island has been THE biggest Capriles supporter since last year so don’t, just don’t.
April 17, 2013 at 6:27 am
As i said below (way below) I am on the same side and I might be over reacting. And yes I confess.. sorry for doing so in times like these.
What I never said was that we need to resort to violence. But we do need to close ranks here. Not start to discuss and get angry over the little details.
Fraud is evident. Abuse of power too. If we do not take a stand now we will be Cuba very soon. This has nothing to do with maturity.
April 16, 2013 at 9:16 am
It already escalated. How much more abuse of government power do you want to see? How much more corruption, lies and fraud do you need to take a stand? You are acting as if this is an isolated case which you know it is not. It is not about a vote count anymore. It is way more than that! Please let the people take a stand and fight for their cause
April 16, 2013 at 10:12 am
It’s his constitutional right to demand a vote-by-vote recount. Then, why are they denying this right? It at least gives the idea that the counts haven’t been done ‘well enough’, let’s stay political here.
Yep, he’s asking people to protest, without violence. What the government wants, is that it’ll go wrong, so they can say the ‘fascist’ (come on government, learn what a word means) Capriles made the country the way it is.
Why won’t they let a recount be done? Why aren’t 300,000 irregularities investigated? Why is Maduro sworn in on a day in April and not in January? It all gives me the idea that things didn’t go democratically.
It’s funny to see how a lot of people ask for proof that Capriles won the elections. No: the CNE should prove that Maduro won. In a constitutional way, following the LAW. And not disobeing the law and then say someone else is to blame.
April 17, 2013 at 5:06 pm
Their are some people that are so naive and my people here I allways say this suffer real bad with amnecia,,,,,please Venezuela wake up !!! So many things that you saw on TV on Sunday nobody needed to tell you all you had to do was put on the TV of the “PUEBLO” and see all the injustice that was going on man,,,,!!! not once did the CNE call them up on it not once !!! let Globovision have done the same ,,you and me know what would have happened ,,,,Maduro said Sunday night you want to check the boxes ? No problem lets do it ,,,then all of a sudden on Monday hes looking up at the clouds and going “Who me I dint say nothing ! “People are writing here like Capriles is asking for a favor,,,,where in real deep trouble here my brother,,,when you start asking for justice like its a favor and not your right,,,,The Goverment will sink like the Titanic the day they decide to do the recount…! Thats why I beleive that they”ll do anything for that not to happen.And sooner or later Capriles is going to bring out solid proof ,,but I still beleive that their will be a lot of doubters,,,,cant make people beleive what they dont want too….
April 16, 2013 at 7:26 am
Diosdado on recount:
http://globovision.com/articulo/cabello-no-vamos-a-contar-voto-por-voto-eso-es-un-caprichito-de-la-burguesia
April 16, 2013 at 7:07 am
I have not posted any photos. When someone like Henry Falcon goes on TV and states three kocations where that has happened, i cant believe he is lying.
To me the proof of all this, is that thre will be no recount, nor will it be accepted, Maduro already said it, i dont think Tibisay will go against his wishes.
April 16, 2013 at 6:30 am
What is your evidence of votes being taken or burned? I have seen a lot of photos recycled from prior elections — including most of the BS in that video above. The military burned 2006 and 2008 voting boxes a few years ago; those photos suddenly popped up yesterday as if they were new. They aren’t. If you have evidence of fraud, great, present it. But quit posting old photos.
Here’s a photo
http://ocvs.tumblr.com/post/48098053877/those-boxes-sealed-in-plastic-are-full-of
with the caption “Those boxes sealed in plastic are full of thousands of ballots from the 2013 Venezuela elections, the boxes where drenched in flammable fluid and lighted by members of the Venezuelan army, making the manual re-count of the votes impossible.
The election of Nicolas Maduro as Venezuela’s president it’s a FRAUD. Help spread the word even further!”
Magically, here is the same photo, taken in 2010:
http://www.eluniversal.com/2010/09/18/pol_ava_cne-incinero-materia_18A4487571.shtml
I guess someone had access to one of those Iranian time machines. They had 2013 ballots in 2010. Cool.
Onward, a whole collection of what are now viral photos:
http://www.taringa.net/posts/imagenes/16613136/Fraude-en-Venezuela-La-gran-farsa-de-la-ciber-derecha.html
Note the text that shows how those photos are all from years ago.
If you have any doubt of whether a picture is new, put the URL into Tineye.com to check. That’s not a foolproof method but it’s better than just screaming fraud and making yourself look silly.
April 16, 2013 at 6:42 am
Henry Fakcon mentioned yesterday three specific sites with address where boxes had been found, in two, they were being destroyed, in Troncal 5 Barinas, they were recovered.
April 16, 2013 at 6:58 am
Thanks, that’s helpful. I’d love to see more info on this, rather than these same photos I keep receiving.
April 16, 2013 at 7:15 am
Miguel the problem is that the opposition people on the streets is screaming fraud using those old pictures. Not the boxes found in Barinas.
So the opposition is weakening its position with that. They are following a red rag.
April 16, 2013 at 7:21 am
People have a right to believe what they want. Capriles did not tell them to go out, on the contrary. If CNE had called for an immediate recount, the tension could have been defused. Instead, it announced a result that the loser was saying was not right and failed to start a recount.
April 16, 2013 at 10:14 am
On the points Setty mentions above, I’m in full agreement. Above all else you must make your arguments legitimate and verifiable. You lose credibility with a lot of these specious claims. Falcon’s allegations, however, may indeed have some validity.
April 16, 2013 at 5:48 am
Rate steady at 23 …
April 16, 2013 at 12:41 am
Mira, El Voto de Fuego, Chavistas burned all the votes so we cannot recount.
April 15, 2013 at 10:51 pm
Lefty governments and communists have always the same behavior ..They just cheat anytime they can.
First they promise, offer a deal and then they decline what they did offer.
Do you remember Chavez resignation??? Defense Minister announced it and then no-show… yesterday Maduro accepted full review and 100% auditing… today CNE declined… same story..And appointed Maduro immediately.
Yesterday evening they were reaching and agreement by phone with Capriles to delay any announcements before receiving foreign votes, then just a few minutes later CNE was spreading definitive results..
You cannot trust anything from these guys and their Cuban advisors.
April 15, 2013 at 10:13 pm
Long time reader, first time poster. First, congratulations to the Devil and other blogging counterparts on the truly exceptional job they have done over the years, excellent writing and reporting and as a hobby no less.
Can someone please explain, what is it the opposition may or thinks it may have? As I understand, they want a recount of the votes because they think they “may” have won. Yet the fervor with which they accuse the government of being illegitimate leads me to believe that they have very solid evidence that this is so. Is this correct? In some form citizens are being motivated (not directly) to protest because hcapriles is fervently calling for a recount and is in no uncertain terms saying there has been fraud and the government claims victory based on this fraud. What could the opposition have that would indicate (hopefully very clearly, given the events that are precipitating due to their challenge) that they are right?
April 15, 2013 at 10:17 pm
The actas, the post-vote tallies that the opposition gathered in 90% of the voting stations.
April 15, 2013 at 10:40 pm
It’s becoming pretty clear that no recount will happen… any indication that the opposition will release the numbers the post-vote tallies tell them?
April 15, 2013 at 10:42 pm
it will be presented on wednesday with the formal request for recount, Maduro said no recount this afternoon. Jeez, I wonder why he changed his mind.
April 15, 2013 at 10:57 pm
He did not change his mind.. He did not want the risk to have the recount. He just needed some hours to cool off outraged opposition people yesterday and , meantime, burn enough boxes..
Now any recount will be more complicated and you may bet they burned the right boxes..
April 16, 2013 at 3:01 am
Capriles won’t release the actas though, imo, at most he’d release bare numbers. This would be his best position to take.
April 16, 2013 at 5:08 am
You have to wait if you dont have 100% of the actas.
April 16, 2013 at 9:41 am
Is he going to have 100% of the actas by Wednesday?
April 17, 2013 at 4:54 pm
hmmmmmm elemently my dear watson !!!! I honestly beleive that this kid Capriles is slicker that a lot of people give him credit for,,,,,keep in mind that everything hes got the people voted him for,,,,unlike uh you know who,,,who had a “GodFather giving him everything,,,,the reason for the recount (only my feeling) is that hes setting them up for the kill,,,,they have the evedince and the real count ,,,I dont know how they do it but both the opposition and the Goverment knows way before whos winning.without a doubt what Capriles is asking for will break all the Chavistas heart….remember that Maduro on Sunday night said “No problem you want to count? Lets do this !! But by Monday he was going like “Who me??? Did I say that???? I think another little bird whispered in his ear over night,,,I remember a lawyer friend of mines once told me “Carlos when you ask a question in court you better know the answer ahead of time ! ! Their isnt any way in hell that the Goverment will agree to a recount….Capriles knows and they know too that they cheated……their going to look to start some kind of violence or anything that will shift the scene to something elsce try to get peoples mind of of this,,,,,,,,we are going to need some kind of asistence from outside,,,,,this is a real big can of worms and I think its not the first time that theirs been fraud in Venezuela ..
April 15, 2013 at 10:03 pm
really corrupted country, I have a condo there and want to sell it because I don’t trust a country taking your investment because they give free to the poor, so at the end Venezuela will alway be poor .
Even with the oil, they should be rick as damai, but they are more poor that african poor country, What the hells there, live it as it and dye like it. good chance venezuela , I don’t see no future for you until many years, bt you voted and keep in mind your votes, We, as investors will never invest in your country,.
the weird is someone asked me today, pease …. can you help me to find a job I have 2 kids.
April 15, 2013 at 11:56 pm
You must be Chinese. Buena suerte.
April 15, 2013 at 9:48 pm
Los of pot banging in the Baruta (Caracas) area; saw some small groups of people at 6:00 pm from barrios near El Placer, they had Capriles posters, and then later at 6:45 near Firemen Station in La Trinidad, a crowd of 100 – 200 people of lower middle class Inavi buildings. Later returning at 8:30 pm the crowd at the Inavi buildings was maybe 400 – 500 people, also with Capriles posters and pot banging. I am talking of poor and lower middle class.
Arriving at the building were I live, there was a bush fire set by a group of motorbikers (told by neighbors who witnessed it), who used gasoline, angry maybe due to the pot banging going on. It took quite a while for several of teh neighbors to put out the fire with garden hoses (the local firemen said that they were controlling burning tires near their station in la Trinidad…)
As Miguel said, things are getting ugly…
April 15, 2013 at 9:38 pm
empate –
share the power,
strengthen the nation,
fix the luz, grow chickens,
sow corn, beans and platanos,
live in peace.
April 15, 2013 at 9:41 pm
Yikes! but that’s too hi-tech,
let’s clobber each other instead
April 15, 2013 at 9:38 pm
Going from Barquisimeto to Acarigua people are out in the streets with their pots and are burning trash and tires. At the entrance of Cabudare just south of Barquisimeto I saw like half dozen National Guards ( NG ) in one of the four corners and people banging on the other three. In front of Lacteos Los Andes, a state owned dairy company, there were like 20 NG’s. Then a big concentration of people at the entrance of La Mora also with trash and tire burning
April 15, 2013 at 9:27 pm
Did we really win and can we prove we won?
April 17, 2013 at 4:42 pm
Only when you play fair and abide by the rules,,,,,then and only then will we ALL WIN
April 15, 2013 at 9:26 pm
But in the end, neither Capriles nor Falcon are declaring themselves winners, they are only requesting an audit of the ballots, which is sort of desperating to be frank.
So I may ask: Is the opposition just following a properly planned script and we have to be patient? Is it certain we won? Are the tallies not matching CNE’s results?
April 17, 2013 at 4:40 pm
The only way “we win” is by doing things legally and democraticaly,,,being fair to both parties no matter what……first you must ask yourself is it legal and constitutional for the recount ? Cause I feel like a lot of people are thinking that Capriles is asking for a favor,….hes not,…and it isnt like the Goverment won by a landslide,,,right? remember also that in the CNE their ar five main members FOUR represent the Goverment and was picked by the Goverment !!! Come on now if that isnt a set up …Im going to leave you with something I heard last night ,,if you yell out BINGO you got to show them your card !!! If you dint cheat youve got nothing to worry about ,,,kinda will make Capriles look like a cry baby don”t you think,,ps its not Falcon its Maduro
April 15, 2013 at 9:20 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/protests-flare-venezuela-government-rejects-vote-recount-005955110.html
“Opposition sources told Reuters their count showed Capriles won by more than 300,000 votes.”
Seems very bizarre to me that the CNE would give numbers showing a Maduro win by 250,000 when they know the opposition has Actas that add up to a 300k win for Capriles.
This is going to be very easily resolved in the next day or so. If the opposition produces the Actas that show it won by 300k then the CNE has some explaining to to. If they don’t produce the Actas which show they got more votes than Maduro then they are just making stuff up and that is the end of their credibility.
April 15, 2013 at 9:44 pm
That source is wrong, what the opposition found is that it is hard to call WITHOUT the international votes. I know the person in charge, 300,000 votes is not too close too call. In fact, the opposition says what Maduro and CNE are saying is simply impossible. Capriles said it very clearly that it is too close to call.
April 15, 2013 at 9:53 pm
Capriles isn’t saying that now, he’s claiming to be the victor, look at his latest statements about this.
April 15, 2013 at 10:04 pm
Yes, with the 60,000 or so international votes, he is.
The other thing they are saying is that it is impossible within any plausible error, that Maduro got the difference that he did
April 16, 2013 at 3:18 am
Hi Miguel. If the numbers don’t add up it’s the simplest fraud to prove, isn’t it?. Are they really that stupid?. A black swan is a completely different ball game.
April 16, 2013 at 4:55 am
Who cares if you have proof that fraud was committed? Certainly not the international community. And with literally control of most media – and intimidation of the rest….well, freedom isn’t free. I think Maduro rides it out and survives, but doesn’t dare to close his eyes at night.
April 15, 2013 at 10:50 pm
ok, but the point is that this whole dispute doesn’t even need a count of ballots beyond the 54% audit already done. They just have to compare all the Actas and someone is right and someone is wrong. This is really at the level of Actas now.
BTW, how many people voted overseas?
April 15, 2013 at 10:54 pm
No, you can ask for a recount if you want and have evidence that requires it. Overseas in October was like 65,000-70,000 votes difference for the opposition.
April 15, 2013 at 10:59 pm
Really? Like in the 2007 referendum? We still don’t know the final CNE tally there.
Or the audits in 2004? Those were really good!!!
The whole point is that only by doing a full recount you will compare who is right? and who is wrong?
But, it ain’t going to happen buddy. No recount Nico says, Capriles is a coupster for not recognizing his victory.
What a fool!
April 15, 2013 at 11:00 pm
What a fool Maqduro, not you. A fool because he is ever weakening his already weak position.
April 16, 2013 at 12:42 am
PAJUO you know they intimidated us and burned all the voting ballots, take your classroom communism elsewhere. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n-GLcc6Bc-U#!
April 17, 2013 at 4:33 pm
Yes for people living in a Democratic Country it is an “easy thing to resolve” but what a lot of people don”t know or don”t want to admit is that we arn”t really living in a Democratic Country where every one has a right,,,,,if your comments and ideas are different from the Goverment well man your in real trouble ,! You are called a traitor a pity yankee, and you name they say it,,,,We are really living in a camouflaged Democratic Country ,,,and the people that are in Goverment know that they cannot afford no how to lose power,,,it they ever do I feel like a lot of them will pass the rest of their life either from court to court or in jail,,,they all know that ,,,and I think that is what scares them so much ,,,,,
April 15, 2013 at 9:16 pm
Miguel: ¿que pasó con http://www.cne.gob.ve? Desde hace como 2030 de ayer no puede accederlo desde el perú, pero no he visto noticias sobre un corte. Talvez el perú está en la mira porque el pato que atacó el twitter del Maduro se identifica como peruano. Por supuesto, puede ser muchas cosas, errores técnicos, una mala ruta a mi proveedor, o incluso un cambio de DNS al que no recibo. Pero es una pena. Al parecer, no está actualizándose el cache de google tampoco.
April 15, 2013 at 9:13 pm
If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the White House will issue an official response which should bring international scrutiny to what is occurring.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/call-upon-international-community-urge-full-recount-votes-be-done-venezuelas-presidential-elections/0MNp0Bys
April 16, 2013 at 9:04 am
Will it be honored?? That, is the question!!
April 16, 2013 at 10:22 am
This is worse than useless. Why would you want the U.S. to make any statement on this? It won’t make any difference, and it would give the Chavistas an excuse to claim “Imperialist meddling”.
April 15, 2013 at 9:11 pm
en un ambiente fifti-fifti,
el descarado fraude electoral del oficialismo
mantendrá la zozobra
April 15, 2013 at 8:52 pm
They always had fraud on their side but this time fraud made a difference in the final result so people are mad. In the past people were not invested emotionally with the fraud because they did not think it made a difference. Good luck mr. Maduro that is a taste in the mouth of the people that you will not be able to wash away easily.
April 17, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Heres the deal…(I”M living in Venezuela for the past 10yrs now) somehow I feel like ive seen this movie allready.,,and last time it din”t end to good,and now well I feel like the same thing,its hard to fight up against bullies,,and being nice and peadefull hmmm I don”t know that it works ! what where going to need is a fair playing field the Countrys that say that they are Democratic has got to step it up this time,,,they have got to let it be known that “In Democracy everything out of it Nothing “! I don”t beleive that whe are going to be able to do anything without some help,,,if not its going to be another 14 yrs more of corruption dictatorship and lofts of Human Rights being stomped on
April 17, 2013 at 4:27 pm
Sorry about that I made a mistake on my EMail Address here is the right one,,,would really like to receive comments on how best to deal with this terrible situation that where having in Venezuela,,